To be just a tiny bit bothered by what I saw at my son's nursery this morning?

[KingofnightvisionKingofinsight]

My 3-year-old DS just started at a new nursery. The teachers are lovely and kind and DS seems happy, and obviously that's most important. But anyway...

This morning at dropoff DS wanted me to stay for a few minutes so I did. I watched him sit down at a craft table set with lovely materials including glue, glitter, scraps of fabric and cotton wool, and small yellow paper circles. My DS spent several minutes carefully applying dumping half a bottle of glue to a good portion of his paper, and then he asked the teacher to pass him some glitter. She very sweetly encouraged him to put more glue on other parts of the paper first, which he did, and then she gave him the glitter. A minute later she gave him a yellow circle. He started to glue it at the bottom of the paper, but she gently corrected him, saying that the sun belongs at the top. She then pointed to a sample project that had been made. It was a picture of the beach, with an ocean of blue fabric scraps and glitter, cotton clouds, and in the top right corner a yellow paper sun. My DS dutifully copied the sample picture and proudly showed me his beach.

AIBU to be a little sad that the nursery is giving the kids the idea of what to make and even showing them something to copy? Why can't they just put out the materials and let them create? I'm wondering if this is always the nursery's approach to art or if it's just this particular teacher. She is otherwise lovely so it's not like I would dislike her for this, but if this always how art and creativity are managed at the school it does give me a bit of pause. If it is I would still be happy with the school but I think I would like to engage them a bit (in a friendly, non-demanding way) about their reasons and figure out how it impacts other areas of the curriculum.

AIBU?

ACubed you're right. I went for a job as a nursery manager and noticed that all the children's work on the walls was the same, noticeably so. It looked just like an adult had said ' copy this, stick this here, that there etc'

I had this kind of thing done to me in primary school. Teacher wanted picture to be clichéd instead of just recognizable. Annoyed me, but as you can see I'm still here, so it didn't damage me much.

Perhaps your son had planned to show a sunset, or perhaps he hadn't thought about it at all.

You can let him do free art at home if you are worried the nursery don't let him do that.

That would've pained me to see too OP. Let them do their thing!

Think of it this way, they are teaching him how the world is ordered - sun at the top, etc. I don't think it's an issue as long as the children are aloud to explore their creativity unabound at other times.

There is a huge number of tasks and skills the children are expected to demonstrate before they finish nursery - this could be prep work for one of them.

*allowed.

To
That will teach me to post before coffee

well, I totally agree with you. sadly though it is the way a lot of art and craft is now taught even in school.

Good practice for young children is free use of materials. Help to use the glue and then free reign to chose what and where to stick.

3 year olds should not be given a picture to copy, or directed to do it in a certain way.

pp saying copying is good, and following instructions and learning to copy are important etc and completely and utterly missing the point.

Good nursery practice for art and creativity doesn't include making a picture the same as the teachers. This was how it was done in the 1950s and then it was thrown out as bad practice.

But I saw it again and again in reception - good practice would be a painting table with paint and paper, for free creativity. What I actually saw was 'today we are painting trees' and every chidl expected to paint their version of the set tree.
very sad.

On the other hand, it wouldn't make me swap nurseries, as at this age feeling emotionally secure is much more important than the art. But I would be giving him lots of reign for free creativity at home.

If you're worried about him not getting to show his creative side, you could always recreate this craft/ art collage at the weekend in your own home and then spend the next month clearing up the bloody glitter

This is the sort of thing you can never raise with a nursery, but it would make me sad too. I think this sort of issue is a big part of why I wanted to stay home with my kids.

There is freedom in creativity but it's nice when children get older and can look back on older "artworks" and actually recognize what it is rather than a page of splodges and glitter.

The Reception class my aunt works in only does this "free creative" shite now, and the kids have fun, but don't learn any new arts and craft skills and end up with crappy tat to take home rather than nice things mums and dads will keep to reminisce.

My mother kept loads of my nursery projects that actually looked like stuff, all the other stuff she tossed. It was garbage, why would anyone keep that?

Oh God.

I agree OP. Let them get on with it! Copying has its place, but not all the time.

I also think that is very poor practice on the practitioner's part. At the very least I would have expected her to talk to the little one about why he was choosing to put the yellow circle there - she may have found that it wasn't a sun at all.

If it's a nursery school and not just a nursery then they are doing their jobs.
Unfortunately, that's the way it is now.
We have nurseries that don't have any teachers and non of the parents refer to them as teachers, they are key workers, nursery nurses.
Maybe look at a different set up if you don't want your dc being taught.

YANBU

I'm really surprised to read so many replies to the contrary!

Some of my best artwork from nursery were indecipherable squiggles and things stuck all over the paper with a line written underneath by the nursery teacher explaining what I'd told her it was "Daddy catching the train to work" or "Me and the cat", etc.

I vividly remember being told by a nursery teacher that I was drawing a person wrong (big round head-with limbs coming straight out of it - she pointed out that our arms came out of our body, not our head). I remember feeling crap even then and yeah, I drew people "correctly" from that point on but I still think about it now.

Why shouldn't he stick the sun at the bottom of that page?! It's his work.

My DD's nursery got a ticking off from the inspectors for doing the same thing - getting kids to copy and not allowing them to be creative.

So no, YANBU.

Not that big a deal really though. You can always let him be more creative at home.

If the nursery is set up like the one where I work, they will have various tables that have different objectives. One table might be play doh, for physical development and improve fine motor skills, one will be putting shapes on a shape sorter for maths skills, one will be copying a collage like the table your son would have been on. And there will be water play, drawing, painting, which are all free play, the children come and go, and do what they want.

At the tables that have a specific learning objective (in line with Early Years foundation stage) a teacher or TA might be taking notes about what the child does, they will take pictures of the results, and write next steps as to what EACH child is capable of doing and what they should do NEXT. For each child, for each activity, this is unfortunately imposed by ofsted who will demand to see that the progress is tracked and recorded for each individual child.

Although I understand your point, I also think that your ds will have plenty of opportunity to participate to free creative play and general free play alongside adult led activities.

prime areas of learning in the EYfS are Communication & Language, Personal, Socoal & Emotional Development, Physical Development. specific areas of learning are Literacy, Understanding of the World, Mathematics, Expressive Arts and Design.

I think I've misunderstood really. Whilst there is absolutely a place for just scribbling on a plain Peice of paper if the Children are doing a beach scene surely the educational part is showing them where the sea and sun go? in primary school if they're asked to draw a house then can't be returning a picture of a sunset or something?

I picked DT up last night and they have made Olympic torches for Paralympics. Of course they've been shown how to do them and they are all similar but that's the point isn't it? It links into their Paralympic topic.

I don't think you can make an assumption based on this alone. DD would do some art at preschool where she had to copy, but much more where she could just create. Wait and see...if all art work that comes home is in the same vein as the beach picture then maybe ask about it at parents evening (or the equivalent). For now though, I wouldn't worry as long as he was having fun.

I wouldn't worry about this, I actually think it's good that they have to follow some guidelines at this age. When they start school and have to do a certain task they won't be able to refuse then so they may as well get used to it now.
I too like the idea of free time with crafts though, where they can express themselves. Maybe you could ask if they provide this as well as structured activities?

Ffs...

It's not something I would complain about but I agree with you, where is the messy creativity?

Re other posters, what value do you attach to copying? I don't understand.

I use to work in a nursery and we would have a mixture of adult led crafts like this one and other craft activities which were not adult led. Maybe you could ask to see the activity plans which should list what the outcomes for this particular activity were.
It maybe that it was mainly an activity aimed at leading to discussion about the beach rather than a creative activity.

I agree! My MIL who is a retired art teacher would have had massive issues with this, she hates copying

I think you're right OP, it's sad that a kid so young is being "told" how to create a pic.
I think I'd email the boss and gently say it's a shame creative play/imagination isn't encouraged

I would be amazed if OPs nursery or any did not do age appropriate free/ messy/ creative play, but this specific instance wasn't one of them. It doesn't mean the whole
Nursery runs like that!