AIBU in wanting the end of the meal ticket for life in this particular instance (or in finishing off all the DC's mini sugared doughnuts)?

[Artemisia48]

I find myself writing this post in the middle of the night because I cannot sleep and I am hoping that some MN's feedback will bring me some moral support -and writing this post will help me back to sleep -that and the doughnuts plus the large glass of Chardo no no no cup of organic herbal tea. Please bear with me if you can as I am gathering all the facts. I divorced the father of my 2 teenage sons 5 years ago very amicably no court involved and we have a great relationship, co parenting together. I am happily remarried with someone who also has 2 teenage children but went through a very bitter divorce court case. His ex doesn't work, is 8 years younger than us, got a very generous settlement (keeping the whole house mortgage free estimated at 1.8 mil.plus a lump sum so circa 2mil and a personal yearly maintenance until she is 65). Not mentioning children's maintenance because this is just normal. It left my DH quite worse off. At the time she was the RP looking after their 2 children (14 & 16) living next to their school in Kent whereas we are based in London; suffice to say, her attitude was always less than amicable and she never facilitated the children' visits. This year 2 things happened: In January my DH's son (16) chose to come and live with us, and in June his DD just left to go to Canada (Uni). We sold our previous property (which I loved) in January to move to another house closer to transport to facilitate my DH' s son's commute and had to take quite a large mortgage as we needed space for the 3 children who live with us for now most of the time. My ex husband and I both contribute equally to a joint budget for our sons but no one is giving the other any maintenance. I am about to start a new job after 3 years of free lancing because we need to pay off the mortgage and my eldest will start Uni next year. And the last straw came today, I have just learned that my DH's ex has now taken up golf and some unpaid local volunteering to fill up her days. My jaws just hit the floor... Surely now is the time for her to self fund whichever lifestyle she has chosen with the assets she was given and stop rely/ weigh on us? We work full time, look after our children and are happy to provide for them, moved house to accommodate the change of circumstances and still pay her the equivalent of a considerable salary (pre tax = my last full time salary approx £50.000). Surely this defies any kind of logic? Aer we still in the 50s or in 2016? In real terms she has become a millionaire when she got divorced and all she needs to do if she doesn't want to work is sell her 5.000 ft house, buy another (still very nice) one and live off her money?? AIBU in finding this meal ticket totally unfair in our circumstances? (Insert angry face). Thanks in advance for your replies.

I really want to know the back story to this too. It does seem unfair on the face of it, surely spousal maintainance is a thing of the past.

OP were you the reason for the breakdown in DP's marriage? Perhaps the seemingly golden ticket is a guilt thing.

I'd also like to know if the maintenance no longer owed for the 16yo who now lives with you is being used towards the house move and bigger mortgage to accommodate him, or to his commuting costs?

Definitely more questions than answers. Seems very odd.

If she gave up a career to look after their kids as part of a decision between the two of them, then spousal maintenance is fair I think.

What job would she get now, 18 years down the line with no experience? He obviously did very well being supported by her and with no childcare responsibilities. That will be why it was awarded, in recognition of how her giving up work aided his career. This has not changed, regardless of where their kids now live

My DP did similar for his ExW, I think it is more common than people think and no backstory. Basically my DP married a childlike woman who refuses to grow up. So when they amicably split he felt the whole guilt, and gave her above and beyond, including spousal maintenance.

He did it because he is kind, generous, naive and had no confidence. The more she got angry to him about not having enough the more he gave in. And she did get nasty. He wanted her animosity to stop. she always got her way while they were married, so no surprise it carried on.

Now, years later, he met me and realises with hindsight what a fool he was. He's going to be paying off her mortgage for life and his wages have decreased. We also have full residence of the kids but unfortunately quite broke! He works 60 hours a week, she works 4 and takes 5 holidays a year. She also has a huge house mortgage free in her name.

But we did get the spousal maintenance stopped. It's something. OP your OH has been totally screwed. Try and claw back something. And then just accept it.

The issues surrounding the Op moving etc are within her control and have presumably been discussed as a family unit so anything surrounding those decisions cannot be "blamed" on the EXW. The Dh came as a package with his commitments familial and financial. The situation changed when his son wanted to come to live with him and that was their decision as a family as to how that came about. If the OP has agreed to move etc then that is between her and her husband. There were presumably other options eg. changing colleges etc. It is possible that the OP's Dh did not want to disrupt his son's schooling as he has a sense of guilt about the family breakup. we would all be slating someone who came on to say my exH wants to uproot my son just as he is going into Year 11/12.

There are situations where spousal maintenance is paid. In a situation where the exw got a decent capital settlement and spousal maintenance again you have to assume that the exH had a decent income and/or other assets such as a pension that was topped to the maximum. The children of the marriage were 16 and 14. I would therefore assume that the exw could feasibly be in her 50s and possibly gave up a career that she may not be able to get back into easily or any job.

A friend of mine was in a career job and now mid 50s and same situation (husband gone off with younger ow) finds herself competing for TA jobs paying less than £10k (but has got one at last - 3 years on).

I know it must irk to feel you are paying for her lifestyle but it is her choice whether she pays for golf, handbags or shops in M&S rather than Aldi. It is her money. It is her choice to do voluntary work.

The fact is she was there first and I suspect she didn't anticipate a life where suddenly as an older woman with kids about to fly the nest shortly she would be without her husband too. The courts generally have the full picture upon which to make the calculation as to whether a settlement is fair (as regards full assets etc). when they either make the award or agree the settlement if it is a negotiated one.

The OP and her husband could try going back to court if there has been a substantial change but it actually doesn't seem as though there has been (only 2 years on) other than they have chosen to take on a larger mortgage and move.

P.s. Have absolutely no idea why some posters can't get their head around the fact that men can get manipulated, through their guilt or generosity. It does happen! Most men I know who pay spousal maintenance are the good guys who have very lazy entitled ex wives. They volunteered usually out of generosity and they all struggle far more as a result.

I hope your not both paying maintenance for the DC anymore OP?and has his ex started paying maintenance to you for the DC that's moved in with you?

Like others have said I'd be going back to court,if you have dependents living with you and she has no dependents living with her it makes no sense what so ever that your both paying loads of money out to his ex!

I don't understand why he would have agreed to pay her until she was 65 anyway! Except the guilt, of course. But still!

I think that, as she no longer has the DC in her charge, then he could quite easily go back to court to change things, if he wants to. Worth looking into anyway.

You are expecting her to voluntarily give up the settlement she won in court, to make you feel better? Why the hell should she do that?

Obviously there is a lot more to this story, but I imagine to get all that, your dh must have been very wealthy and she would have facilitated him to make all tha money by raising his children and losing her own chances of advancement.

She got hers fair and square, why not keep your nose in your own life and finances and out of hers, which are none of your business?

Where do you live OP? Not in the UK I assume?

She got hers fair and square, why not keep your nose in your own life and finances and out of hers, which are none of your business?

Of course it's OP's business. her DP is paying for the lifestyle of his ex. This is going to impact on their family life. He needs to take advice, his circumstances have changed. His ex should not expect to leech off him for the rest of her life.

Which was decided by a court, fair and square.

Really depressed how many woman on here going straight for the trope of grabby ex stealing all the poor mans money, just because his new woman says so.
Hopefully it would be different if the woman came on herself with her story of how she supported her husband for many years while he worked and got rich, then he left her, she got a fair settlement refelcting all her hard work as well as his, and now his new wife thinks that she should give back what she was given by a court, so new wife can have more money.

YANBU.
Shocking how Many mumsnetters suddenly care about the back story when it's an XW being talked about negatively.

Cafe the OP says Kent.

I agree whattodo. There might be a huge backstory. There might not. I think we have a duty to take the OP on face value.

However, I'm struggling to have much sympathy as 'worse off' is obviously completely relative and they are a very wealthy family. I can see why it galls the OP but if it was an acrimonious divorce then pretty certain that every avenue was explored, and that OPs DH used his clearly substantial wealth to use a great solicitor.

If it's unfair, then the DH needs to go back to court. If he doesn't want to, then tough luck really.

Some of us care about the back story no matter who is being talked about, as it always matters and makes you give an sensible answer rather than a pissy knee jerker of a pointless comment.

This settlement was presumably court ordered so I'm not sure what can be done about it.

Felicia. She did too, sorry. I just wondered if she was posting from overseas as she'd said 'the make of the night' and I don't consider 6:30am the middle of the night 😁

Not a single post in 5 hours...

She seems to have received a pretty hefty pay out. There must be some kind of back story to warrant that sort of set up. Spousal support went out of the window years ago.
I hate to say it but this is what you've brought on yourself - you chose to intertwine your life with this man and this is his set up. You should have walked into this knowing exactly what it was. You've sold up and looking to leave your freelancing because of this. Doesn't seem worth it in hindsight does it?

*If she gave up a career to look after their kids as part of a decision between the two of them, then spousal maintenance is fair I think.

What job would she get now, 18 years down the line with no experience? He obviously did very well being supported by her and with no childcare responsibilities. That will be why it was awarded, in recognition of how her giving up work aided his career. This has not changed, regardless of where their kids now live*

This.

I don't believe in "meal tickets for life" but I do believe that where there is a joint decision for one parent to be a SAHP to support the WOHP's career, and the marriage later fails, the WOHP should have to share his ongoing earnings with the SAHP - in recognition of the fact that the SAHP enabled him to have that high earning career and she is now not able to earn much due to years out of the workplace.

I know this is controversial and the courts have moved away from this, and that is one reason why I will never be a SAHP.

The first things I always think when j hear complaints that the XW got the house are:

• did the kids stay with her so she had greater need for housing size / stability. Oh yes they did (that SS wants to move now was not predicted, it's not her fault)

• I wonder what happened about pensions. You see, lower earning / SAHP often has poor comparative pension provision at the same time as having a far more immediate need for housing support. It's very very common for the XW to "get the house" whilst in fair exchange the XH gets the pension.

As we all keep saying - it's half a story!

Realistically if the kids were 12 and 14 when the order was made and she was a SAHM the whole time then a good lawyer will have a case for spousal support. Odds are if she got the house then the husband got the pension so it's perhaps not as unfair as it first appears.
There was a very long thread on MSE from the husband's perspective. Had he not had a lot of tenacity and means to pay huge legal fees he'd have had a similar situation to the OP's family but the spousal support was reduced from unlimited to several years to enable her to retrain/find employment.

Often though if there is an element of leaving the wife behind/trading her in for a newer model it appears some men choose not to fight it as they feel guilty for the wife and children.

Do people still pay spousal maintenance these days?

Yes.

Often though if there is an element of leaving the wife behind/trading her in for a newer model it appears some men choose not to fight it as they feel guilty for the wife and children

They should feel guilty. And this dude in the OP is obviously loaded, he can afford the guilt money. It's not him that has a problem with it, its wife number 2. She wants her husband exwife to sell her house, what business is that of hers?