To think most of the people bemoaning grammar schools are hypocrites

[pleasemothermay1]

That's just it's really I don't mind people who have the courage of there conviction but I have no trux with champagne socialists

Like jc or Diane Abbott or Tristan hunt

Who's children all went or will be going to grammar or private

Even bloody James o Brian moaning about grammars when he rountinly says he wouldn't rule out private for his girls 😕

Some politicians do not practice what they preach. No shit, Sherlock.

I lost a bit of interest half way through, so haven't read the whole of the thread, but, for what it's worth, here's what I think:

I went to a grammar school and did well, but I am against them. My DP went to a grammar school and hated it, he was good at English and not Maths and treated like an idiot, he "disengaged" and ended up going to catering college as he didn't want to do anything academic. My sister went to a comp instead (dyslexic and told not to go to grammar) and has done very well. I think that it is horrendous to split kids up at 11 and cream off some academic ones. It damages those that don't get it and it damages those that are not at the top.

"More or less" on R4 looked at the results for grammar school areas compared to the rest of the country and found that the bright kids didn't get better results than elsewhere and the kids that didn't go got much worse results. So, not an advantage if you are bright, but damaging if you aren't.

Where I live, we have a choice of 3 good comprehensives and I am very happily sending my DD to one of them. Admittedly, I am probably in the 'paid more for my house' bracket, but what about the excellent schools in central London now. I know that the Hackney Academy has done really well - not a leafy suburb is it?

If it was up to me, I would get rid of private schools and grammar schools. I think that if there were no option for the "privileged" then there would be a knock on improvement across the board as they engaged with their local schools. My cousins went to a dodgier comp because their parents are committed left-wing idealist types. They both got excellent exam results. I think that if all the wealthier middle class kids were going to the same schools as every one else, then the results of those schools would improve. But, it is possible to improve schools without this as well (eg Hackney), it just takes a lot more hard work!

They will be in a shitty school where there is no longer a small group of bright and/or motivated children to show them what can be done, and a school where all the teachers who are most interested in academic achievement have left

My comps open to us are already shitty and have been for a very long time, decades in fact.

How can someone in the top set show someone who is totally separated from them in the bottom set what to do?

"And as person who went to a comp for those who haven't been are are planning on sending there children there don't do it please give your child a chance
If you can afford better do it"

You sound a bit unhinged. It's not possible for everyone to not send their child to a comp - there will never be enough grammar schools to cover that.
In Wales there aren't any.

Lots of children do perfectly well at Comprehensives.

Some politicians do not practice what they preach.

No surprise there I agree.
But it sticks in ones craw when these are the politicians who try and ram their so called higher ideals and morals down are necks whilst going on about the nasty Tories

Here you go It doesn't mention the broken ankle - I may be wrong about that, it says head injuries but it is what young people were discussing the following week.

I am not slagging off this school, it is a good school. But if you think the schools that people tutor for, move house for, are selective etc are free from aggro, do think again.

Mine for one. And all their friends.

Often such children's skills are not evident until mid to late teens

This is why they want different age entry points not just 11.

That was to the point that lots of kids do rather well in comps.

Am I right in assuming that this affects only England as education is devolved in Scotland and NI (and Wales?). There are no grammar schools in Scotland, or at least, there is no 11+. This has been the case since the early 70's

If you did away with all private schools and grammars all that would happen is you would have it by stealth

So schools like the oratory the monied would simply use the saving on private school to buy a hike in a area were the comps are oustanding

They would attracted all the bright and best teachers in fact they would likey have there pick

So awsome yes let's get rid and we can truly have selection by Welth

poster IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat Tue 13-Sep-16 14:45:09

Northern irland

Has a strong tradition of grammar school and faith schools most children do not go to bog standard comps

My husband is from there

What is the point of having different entry points to a grammar school? Say a child of 14 suddenly has a leap in maths ability and could possibly enter the grammar school at that point why should they leave a school that they may well be happy in? The different entry poiny argument is such a canard, it will never happen and would probably be detrimental to the child.

bearleftmonkeyright
We currently have this with studio schools

You can enter at 14 or 16
14 is just before you choose GCSE options so most teachers know which children are super academic by then and 16 at a level once the GCSEs you will know for sure

When studio schools work they
Are really good and most people agree 14 is the right age tbh

The 11+ in the 50's was set up to stream potential white collar workers, and arguably it did a fair job at that. But the job market has significantly changed and recognising technical talent is quite different from ticking correct spelling and addition.

Humid I don't understand the point about the different entry streams. Does that mean that older children who fail the 11+ stream simply stay on the scrapper until they show some potential and at that stage they are transferred to the grammar? What are the other children at the crap school taught? Is it a mini streaming to get to the grammar? How would this work? What happens if they never make it and at which point do you give up?

Why is it we will accpect selection for studio schools technical schools but not for academic schools

I just don't get it

I don't know anything about studio schools? It's not something I have ever heard of, and as a solution I don't know it's viability. It also sounds like something that could be achieved in, I dont know, maybe a top set in a comprehensive school.

Good point about the majority of failing schools being in the North, CountessFitz. I have some knowledge of how bad it is through having family in Hull, which is pretty much bottom of any education table you care to create.

However, the improvements that Labour managed to achieve in London schools show that, with political will, extra money and a well-thought-through plan, improving schools across the board is entirely possible.

The state primary my DC attend has changed out of all recognition over the last decade. It is successful, not just academically, with a very mixed intake including a high % of children with English as a second language and/or qualifying for the pupillage premium. The local secondaries have also improved a lot, notwithstanding the high numbers of intelligent or coached middle-class children who leave the state system at 11 and go to local independent schools.

schoolsweek.co.uk/closing-down-14th-studio-school-to-fold-leaving-just-33-open/

No wonder I've never heard of studio schools. Looks like they're not very workable.

Please

OK then it just affects NI and England? It is definitely devolved in Scotland so will not be implemented there. Not sure about Wales?

BTW I went to a bog standard comp and have two degrees. My five siblings also all have degrees and various professional qualifications. My nieces and nephews are all at university, going both tech and science disciplines. My children now go to bog standard comps and they are doing very well too.

If we're talking about Hackney, look how much money they get
More than half as much again as in some areas.
It does sound like London comprehensives have done amazingly well in turning things around. Looking at them, I am impressed by the opportunities on offer to everyone in absolutely non-leafy areas. But then, with London house prices you don't get much leaf for your money, so there must be large numbers of quite well off families, as well as the deprived ones (many of whom are immigrants with no money but lots of cultural capital) mixed into the intakes.
If we could replicate these schools elsewhere it would be brilliant. If they had replicated them in my old town I would have been quite happy to send my kids there, but the massive injection of money it would need just isn't going to happen. If we suggested cutting the budgets of the well-performing comps so the bad schools could be improved don't think there would be many takers for that on here.
(Plus bad schools in rural areas are another ball game from the inner city ones and it's not at all clear they could be as good as the inner city ones even if we followed the same pattern of interventions.)

x-post with Windpower

studioschoolstrust.org

poster bearleftmonkeyright Tue 13-Sep-16 14:54:51
It's not for top set students it's for technical children so for example if you have a culinary studio school they would learn French as its the language of cooking , English , maths a science and then all the cooking displine the school may or may not have a cafe or restraunt run buy the students Ect

This is already happening my friends son attends one for construction in west London his uniform is work overalls with a school logo on it

poster bearleftmonkeyright Tue

Yes I do have to agree my friend is having a lot of issues with her sons school