To think most of the people bemoaning grammar schools are hypocrites

[pleasemothermay1]

That's just it's really I don't mind people who have the courage of there conviction but I have no trux with champagne socialists

Like jc or Diane Abbott or Tristan hunt

Who's children all went or will be going to grammar or private

Even bloody James o Brian moaning about grammars when he rountinly says he wouldn't rule out private for his girls 😕

[corythatwas]

I have certainly never been in a position to send my children private or to buy into a good catchment, had I wanted to. My dd is a bright girl who was identified as gifted very early, but who would have been unable to pass the 11+ due to prolonged ill health during the relevant years. Thanks to her supportive comprehensive she was able to maintain her interest in her studies and go on to do well at A-levels.

Is it hypocritical of me to say "no, I do not wish that all the teachers and friends who helped her should have been creamed off to go to another school which she could not have accessed due to circumstances that had nothing to do with her intelligence or motivation". In that case- you will have to write me down as hypocritical.

[Humidseptember]

JC left his wife because of her insistence of a grammar school education for their child.


^^ I thought she left him? Grammar school issue and his affair with Diane Abbot? Two socialitst stalwarts whose dc BOTH ended up being educated anywhere other than a comp

[motherinferior]

And you've rather short-circuited your own argument in saying now that schools in posh areas do worse than ones in poor areas. I thought we were all buying houses in Naice Areas to get near Naice Comps?

[pleasemothermay1]

You can only convince parents that grammars are not the answer when comps are up to a decent standard and there are those who are still fighting

Setting and streaming those who more airy fairy subject in school when many don't know the basics and many who amazingly think strict dislipne have no place in secondary schools

Again I I make my point I very much doubt there was any grammar school were the police were called over parents not wanting to adher to the inform rules witch I would think would be more strict than most comps

And as person who went to a comp for those who haven't been are are planning on sending there children there don't do it please give your child a chance
If you can afford better do it

[BillSykesDog]

The answer to giving all children a better education is not to open more grammar schools so more rich people can tutor their kids into them, it's to fund the existing comprehensives in all areas and raise teaching standards.

So how come nobody has ever achieved this? Labour were in power for a long time and didn't achieve this.

You're never going to get uniformity of educational achievement. And it is always going to be poor children who get the shitty end of the stick. Just because you're resigned to that doesn't mean other people should be, and they will support grammar schools for that reason. Even if their kids don't get in, they'll still be in exactly the same situation with their kid at a shitty school. There's nothing to lose.

[pleasemothermay1]

motherinferior Tue

Show me one grammar school this September were there police needed to be called because parents refused to adhere to uniform rules and would rather deny there child a education rather than but official school shoes

[Humidseptember]

www.theguardian.com/politics/1999/may/13/uk.politicalnews2

"She was adamant that Benjamin, 11, should not go to the local comprehensive; her husband, the far left MP for Islington North, who opposes selection in education, insisted his son should not travel out of the borough to a selective grammar school"

'My children's education is my absolute priority, and this situation left me with no alternative but to accept a place at Queen Elizabeth boys' school. The decision was made by myself alone and without the consent of my husband,' she said.

'The difficulties of making decisions under these circumstances have played an important role in bringing about a regrettable marital break-up.'

The Corbyns' dilemma will be familiar to the prime minister and Harriet Harman, the former social security secretary.

Senior members of the then shadow cabinet called for her to be sacked in 1996 when she sent her son to a selective grammar school. She explained: 'We had to make the right decision in the interests of our child. We would have been less than human if we had done anything else.'


David Willetts, the Conservative education spokesman, said: 'I hope this will have made him think very hard about the policies he is advocating. He faces a dilemma if the system he supports does not even appeal to the mother of his own child.'

[pleasemothermay1]

You're never going to get uniformity of educational achievement. And it is always going to be poor children who get the shitty end of the stick. Just because you're resigned to that doesn't mean other people should be, and they will support grammar schools for that reason. Even if their kids don't get in, they'll still be in exactly the same situation with their kid at a shitty school. There's nothing to lose.
this

[pleasemothermay1]

He faces a dilemma if the system he supports does not even appeal to the mother of his own child.'

this even labour realise the state system is shite

They are prescribing medication they wouldn't take themselves

[pleasemothermay1]

And didn't the very tiney balir attend one of the best private schools in the country

Chukka aumna

Ect

[corythatwas]

motherinferior, interestingly enough, dd's comprehensive, which was well fairly light on uniform (no ties, jumpers rather than blazers), had excellent GCSE results during her time there and Ofsted specifically commented on the good behaviour of the children.

A few years later, they got a new head, who ranted endlessly about pulling themselves up and improving standards, and was particularly keen on introducing a more formal uniform. Standards have dropped right down and they have recently failed their Ofsted. Don't know quite how he managed it in such a short time, but alienating pupils, parents and staff by constantly suggesting that they couldn't possibly be highly motivated due to their demographic was probably part of it. And the effect of some of the best teachers upping and leaving was very noticeable in the quality of teaching and consequent results. So not that different from what one might expect to see in a grammar school/secondary modern division.

[TheSunnySide]

"How is it that schools have got to the point where grammar school entrance is so hard that people have to now afford private tutors?"

Competition for places.

Now you could argue that more schools = more places = more chance of getting in but that does nothing for the very normal people who cannot afford to pay for tutors. Some of the stories I have heard about the cost are gobsmacking. At the moment there are so many well tutored kids NOT getting places - they are the ones who would take the extra spaces.

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/sep/12/tutor-11plus-test-grammar-schools-disadvantaged-pupils?CMP=fb_gu

[Humidseptember]

The answer to giving all children a better education is not to open more grammar schools so more rich people can tutor their kids into them, it's to fund the existing comprehensives in all areas and raise teaching standards


Its been pointed out numerous times that we are in a grammar limbo at the moment and therefore, many primary schools do not even mention GS to their pupils let alone identity or help those that could apply from disadvantaged backgrounds.

If a child is not even aware of the 11+ and the childs school does not mention it, can you tell me how that child is supposed to get itself together to sit the exam?

There is no consistency in primary schools and helping pupils prepare for and sit the test. Yet on the other hand you have parents sending their DC to prep schools who will be working every day with that very test and other more rigorous tests in mind.

Many primary schools do not even cover the sufficient amount of the curriculum to pass the test. This is where tutors have stepped in. To fill that gap that primary schools have left open.

[pleasemothermay1]

Ruth Kelly also sent her children to private

Ahhj the taste of Moët must me amazing in the ivory tower

[motherinferior]

Cory

[Humidseptember]

How is it that schools have got to the point where grammar school entrance is so hard that people have to now afford private tutors?"

see above, their primary schools are not supporting them or even covering the curriculum in many places so what are parents supposed to do?>

[corythatwas]

pleasemothermay1 Tue 13-Sep-16 14:25:23


"You're never going to get uniformity of educational achievement. And it is always going to be poor children who get the shitty end of the stick. Just because you're resigned to that doesn't mean other people should be, and they will support grammar schools for that reason. Even if their kids don't get in, they'll still be in exactly the same situation with their kid at a shitty school."

No, they won't. They will be in a shitty school where there is no longer a small group of bright and/or motivated children to show them what can be done, and a school where all the teachers who are most interested in academic achievement have left.

[Bobochic]

Interesting, cory.

It's also quite easy to alienate people by suggesting they are scruffy and that they need you to dictate how to dress.

[Humidseptember]

Yeah and Nick Clegg and Blairs schools were not ideal either were they.

But ok for the rest of us.

[Offline]

"Show me one grammar school this September were there police needed to be called because parents refused to adhere to uniform rules and would rather deny there child a education rather than but official school shoes"

Tbf as far as we know only ONE comp has had police involvement (and they weren't called) because of uniform ructions. I can however point you to a selective (actually has two super-selective classes) school where police did have to be called to break up a mass playground fight, someone ended up with a broken ankle and one of the pupils charged with assault was the DC of a member of staff.

Bad stuff happens in any kind of school, good stuff happens in every type of school.

[TheSunnySide]

"Cracking down on uniform is often one of them we see how not letting the little darling not wearing Nike air max to school because they want to goes down like a lead ballon "

There's plenty of research to show that strict uniform rules are not what raises atainment

[pleasemothermay1]

Mr Milne, the Marxist-sympathising Guardian columnist who starts a new job next week as the Labour Party’s executive director of strategy and communications, shunned the numerous comprehensive schools within walking distance of his home in Richmond, west London, and instead sent his son Patrick to the Tiffin School in Kingston upon Thames and his daughter Anna to the nearby Tiffin Girls’ School. Tiffin Girls was ranked the second best school in England for GCSE results this year, while Tiffin Boys was 18th.

[pleasemothermay1]

No, they won't. They will be in a shitty school where there is no longer a small group of bright and/or motivated children to show them what can be done, and a school where all the teachers who are most interested in academic achievement have

ahh so I get it now we keep the bright children in a shit school for the benefit of other children

Like when teacher sits well behaved child next to naughty child in order to mitergate some of the bad bahviour in reailty what happens is the behaviour of the good child slips awsome

[Humidseptember]

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/mar/04/clegg-chooses-catholic-school-comprehensive

As well as not being Nick Clegg's local school – it is just over two miles away – the London Oratory school is far from being an average comprehensive.

Houses on nearby Halford Road in SW6 are on sale for £2.25m and almost 91% of pupils achieve at least five A* to C grades at GCSE, including English and maths. Across England, 51.9% of teenagers achieved this benchmark last year. Its results place the school in the top fifth of secondaries across the country.

Just 6% of pupils come from deprived homes – a third of the average in England. However, the school takes an average number of pupils with special needs.
Tony Blair sent his sons, Euan and Nicky, to the school. Other alumni include the actor Simon Callow, former Conservative MP Jerry Hayes and rugby union star Michael Swift. The school was a grammar in the 1960s, but became a comprehensive in the 1970s.

[IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat]

I know that this isn't considered good form, but on thread about grammar schools you would think that the OP would consider their, erm, grammar.

The future lies in technology. Currently the skills primary schools teach children are centred on language and arithmetic, not abstract or spatial learning. Additionally, the children who excel at abstract thinking tend not to be naturals at language and arithmetic. What happens to these children when they inevitably fail an 11+ ? Often such children's skills are not evident until mid to late teens.