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to ask would you send your eldest Dc to a grammar school?

908 replies

var12 · 10/09/2016 17:33

Hypothetical question... if there were grammar schools in your area and your DC1 was offered a place, would you accept it?

OP posts:
smallfox2002 · 16/09/2016 19:32

Exams haven't got easier.

Think about the way you were taught and the way your kids are.

There's loads of info out there.

For example the gcse grade c in maths is equitable still to the o level pass.

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2016 21:49

"its a lot harder for the highly able to differentiate themselves these days."
What do you mean?

MumTryingHerBest · 16/09/2016 22:04

dangermouseisace Fri 16-Sep-16 18:26:10 Around here (grammar school area) many kids who are able enough to sit the test/get offered place at grammar school choose comprehensives

If you are in a Grammar area how is it you also have comps? Are you in Kent or Bucks?

sandyholme · 16/09/2016 22:32

Close to other local authorities borders!
However, Bertrand you know the only people who say 'Secondary Modern' school are you and the posters on here !

Everybody i know calls a non grammar school a Comprehensive regardless of whether the school is located in a selective area or not.

It is if you want to make sure the said school knows it's in the 'dirt' and is not a Comprehensive.
Bertrand you keep the designation of 'Ancient' going, because by doing so you are trying to convince people the 1950s educational Apartheid still exists today .

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2016 23:01

Yes- grammar school supporters are very good at obfuscation. All part of the "believing 3 impossible things before breakfast" agenda. They have to really, because the inconvenient facts do not support their case even a little bit.

MumTryingHerBest · 16/09/2016 23:28

sandyholme Fri 16-Sep-16 22:32:07 Everybody i know calls a non grammar school a Comprehensive regardless of whether the school is located in a selective area or not.

OK, as your seem to be far more informed than me (as I thought sec. mods. stille existed) please could you name the comps. in Bucks for me please.

var12 · 16/09/2016 23:29

"believing 3 impossible things before breakfast"
The last time I heard that phrase was just before the referendum vote when there were strident voices insisting that we should not not to change the status quo lest the world as we know it implode.
It didn't then and it won't now.

But I still don't think there will actually come a day when parents have a real choice of school. This new policy will either be aborted or strangled at birth.

OP posts:
MumTryingHerBest · 16/09/2016 23:29

sandyholme Fri 16-Sep-16 22:32:07 Everybody i know calls a non grammar school a Comprehensive

Out of interest, do you actually live in a Grammar area?

var12 · 16/09/2016 23:32

So, it's funny if you think about it that we can have huge decisions like brexit enacted but converting every fifth school into a grammar isa step too far, politically speaking.

OP posts:
MumTryingHerBest · 16/09/2016 23:33

var12 Fri 16-Sep-16 23:29:01 But I still don't think there will actually come a day when parents have a real choice of school. This new policy will either be aborted or strangled at birth.

Take a close look at these:

www.stclementdanes.org.uk
www.croxleydanes.org.uk/

I think this is the start of the new generation of schools (I really, really hope not).

sandyholme · 16/09/2016 23:38

I live in East Essex where grammar schools and Comprehensives call themselves high schools !

However, The term Upper School = Comprehensive in Buckinghamshire .

Bucks Council define 'Upper' schools as all ability schools. Schools such as John Colet, Waddesdon and Great Marlow cater for all abilities and as such cannot be defined as anything other 'Comprehensive'.

multivac · 16/09/2016 23:39

"...we can have huge decisions like brexit enacted"

You reckon? See anything happening yet?

sandyholme · 16/09/2016 23:46

Actually they call it a ' Comp' this is not a flattering expression by the way The designation 'Comp' is an expression that means that the school is as dull as 'dish water' with scruffy uniforms ,lax discipline (kids running amok in the town) and low ambitions .

Three children at grammar ,in a fully selective coastal area.

var12 · 16/09/2016 23:50

I looked at the first school listed - St Clement Danes. I'm on my phone so my search was a bit limited.
Give me a clue though... what's wrong with it? Ofsted outstanding, cthe head teacher waffle sounds like all the others I've ever seen, it's co-ed and it is not even selective.t bh I can't see whats not to like

OP posts:
multivac · 16/09/2016 23:52

I like St Clement Danes (even despite the Ofsted Outstanding). I am also unsure what we're supposed to be worried about.

BertrandRussell · 17/09/2016 05:31

Well, I don't know anything about Rickmansworth, but either it is an extremely prosperous area or St Clement Danes has some element of covert selection- pupils are of above average attainment on entry and there are 0.1% SEN and 6.1% FSM. As the school says it draws its cohort mostly from the local area, I assume "post code selection"?

I presume that there is another school where the less shiny kids go? Which will be damaged by the expansion?

Wellywife · 17/09/2016 08:07

Mumtrying. What didn't you like about those schools? I've only looked at the first but it looks fine.

With the Secondary Modern vs Comprehensive discussion I'm in Trafford and like Sandy said earlier schools here are locally referred to as Grammars or Comprehensives even if the Comprehensives are technically Secondary Moderns. I also haven't heard Secondary Modern apart from on MN!

Wellywife · 17/09/2016 08:09

Bertrand I think Rickmansworth is very prosperous!

DinosaursRoar · 17/09/2016 08:41

Round here the non-grammars are called high schools or academies, or sometimes comprehensive (as they will take the 11+ passers if their parents want to send them).

Interestingly, you never hear of people talking about bringing back technical schools - I guess because actually they would be very popular with parents of non-academic children who wouldn't pass the 11+.

CecilyP · 17/09/2016 08:48

Technical schools, where they existed, tended to simply be more sciency grammar schools (quite a lot in Essex). They tended to be the second tier grammar school for children who passed but scored less highly in the 11+. What they certainly didn't select on was any technical ability.

multivac · 17/09/2016 09:03

BR - actually, there's transparent selection at St Clement Danes: 10% of places are allocated on 'musical ability', and 10% on 'academic ability'. The rest of the admissions policy is pretty standard, but with siblings unusually high up the priorities list. This isn't ideal, imo; but I've interviewed the head and her approach is both progressive and, I think, genuinely comprehensive in intent. I'd like to see her do her stuff in a less salubrious area :-)

BertrandRussell · 17/09/2016 09:28

"BR - actually, there's transparent selection at St Clement Danes"

Really? I must have missed that in my skim read. Ah yes, musical ability- that well known breaker down of social barriers..........

multivac · 17/09/2016 09:31

Well, quite. I'm sure one can pass the musical ability test without instrumental tuition.....

MumTryingHerBest · 17/09/2016 10:09

BertrandRussell Sat 17-Sep-16 09:28:48 "BR - actually, there's transparent selection at St Clement Danes"

Really? I must have missed that in my skim read. Ah yes, musical ability- that well known breaker down of social barriers...

St Clement Danes is part of the SW Herts Consortium:

Parmiters
Watford Grammar for boys
Watford Grammar for Girls
St Clement Danes
Rickmansworth
Queens
Bushey Meads

Take a look at the house prices near SCD (WD3 area).

These schools have every single form of selection possible except low academic ability.

Humidseptember · 17/09/2016 10:14

Bertrand you keep the designation of 'Ancient' going, because by doing so you are trying to convince people the 1950s educational Apartheid still exists today

Shrewd observation there but I think this poster has a child at Grammar school so probably does know quite well the in's and out's of it all? Correct me if I am wrong Bertrand Russel?

Yet another dp of a dc who has got in and who wants to stop the rest of us accessing it.

I am not sure if I posted this here or another thread

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/hmcis-monthly-commentary-june-2016

Ofsted's Chief Inspector, Sir Michael Wilshaw, comments on the most able pupils, saying that there is still too much talent going to waste

The question of how well our brightest pupils are supported and challenged to achieve high academic results after they transfer to secondary school has been the subject of 2 high profile Ofsted studies in recent years.

Both these surveys found that thousands of pupils who achieved well at primary school, especially those from more disadvantaged backgrounds, were failing to reach their full potential after the age of 11. The reasons for this were:

poor transition arrangements with feeder primary schools that left many academically gifted pupils treading water in their first few years of secondary school, rather than building on the gains made at key stage 2
a culture of low expectations and a failure to nurture high ambition and scholastic excellence
few checks being made on whether the teaching of mixed ability groups was challenging the brightest children sufficiently
disproportionate effort being spent in many schools on getting pupils over the GCSE D/C borderline rather than supporting the most able to secure the top A/A* grades

If I have a bright academic dc why should I risk it? Why?

If my other dc are not as academic as the first why would I want to squeeze them into such a school????