FURIOUS! AIBU to not return my DTSs to school on Monday? Blood boiling!

[SaggyBaggyPuss]

This is way too long but I can't make it any shorter and I've spent an inordinate amount of time trying to so apologies in advance!

DTSs have been at their current secondary since Yr7. It is an outstanding school and very highly thought of so I was delighted they got in. It is not the nearest school, about 45 mins walk away, but the closest one, 10 mins walk away, was in Special Measures when we applied for Secondary.

In the first term of Yr 7, DTS2 was diagnosed with ADHD, severe learning difficulties (mental age 4-5 years below actual age) and working memory problems. We had waited 2 years for diagnosis at that point and had pushed for an assessment since Reception Yr but Primary School labelled him as naughty and did not support my view that there was something wrong with him. I contacted the secondary school before he started there and requested a meeting to explain that we were awaiting an assessment, discussed low level 'silly' behaviour difficulties that DTS2 had, together with the fact that he was 4 years behind average attainment. I was also very anxious about the transition as I knew he would struggle.

No support was put in place from the start, they basically ignored what I told them despite him being on School Action+ all through primary school. He did not have any plan/IEP drawn up until the 2nd term of Yr7 after I pushed for it and was left in mainstream lessons until I bugged them to put him in SEN classes. Apart from a few silly incidents where he retaliated to being called 'retard' etc (he has an odd gait and other kids have picked up on his LD's), constant detentions for not doing homework (impossible for me to make him) and forgetting things, things were reasonably OK until he started Yr 9.

I had applied for a statement of SN's (EHCP) for him in Yr 7 as soon as we got diagnosis but it was denied as the school had not shown that they had offered him support. I did not know at that point that I should have appealed.

There were a few incidents of other boys challenging him to fights after school (he's over 6ft and the smaller boys wanted to 'take him down') and he did not have the maturity to ignore. The name calling started up and as he did not report it (was afraid he would be blamed), when he called names back the other kids would report him.

Anyway it all came to a head when he was threatened with permanent exclusion for persistently breaching the school's behaviour policy but a lot of it was minor - forgetting equipment, pushing the gate buzzer for too long, not going to registration because he was hiding in the toilets. He was regularly put into isolation as well and not getting lunch as he was not told to go.

At this point, I started getting angry too late and asked the school what they were doing to support his SEN and his behaviour. I had an awful meeting with the Head who denied that his LD's, ADHD and memory problems would affect his behaviour so according to them he was deliberately being 'naughty' and apparently DTS2 agreed with this, when asked .

I then made a complaint against the school for discrimination of DS due to his SEN as the school said they could not make 'reasonable adjustments' for him as they had to treat ALL children exactly the same. The Chair of the Governing Body did not address my complaint at all and only discussed putting him on behaviour report. I asked for a response to my complaint in writing and it was ignored.

I asked if they could get an Educational Psychologist in to see him and they refused. I also asked for the school to apply for a statement of SEN themselves and they refused so I applied again myself in March this year and this time they agreed to assess him for one and I should find out next week if they are giving him one (looks likely). I found out when I asked the school to provide me evidence of what support he's getting I had to create a massive fuss for them to tell me and they ignored my requests that it is virtually nothing and even they said his attainment is 'worrying' from looking at his assessments but they still did nothing to support him .

It is evident that they have been trying to get rid of DTS2 as he will impact on their results. They have told me that if he can't settle and learn, they would prefer to offer his place to someone on the waiting list who can. They have also blatantly lied - telling the Education Authority that they never threatened permanent exclusion when I have an email from them saying this, and I was phoned every week with the threat of it if he did not get enough points on his behaviour chart, and denying that I had given them DTS2 medical reports detailing his diagnosis so they weren't aware of it . I have had to constantly fight them for support for DTS2 and was told that it was an utter nightmare with calls most days telling me he was being put in isolation.

I had decided to move schools for both DTS's as DTS1 who was in top set for everything has gone very downhill recently and has also experienced low level bullying and he said he wanted to move too, but was trying to wait until we had got confirmation that DTS2 was getting a Statement (EHCP) so support would be in place for him from the start.

The new school is our catchment school which is now out of Special Measures and has had a major turn around now, and DTS1 has friends who are already there. I applied for a transfer for both of them at the end of June hoping that there would be enough time for the school to process it before they broke up for the summer hols and the DTSs could start there when they went back this week, but I was informed on the last day of school (after constant chasing with no response) that they had not even looked at my applications as they were 'too busy' and I would have to wait until Sept for them to contact me. This week, I have been told that I will have to wait until next week for them to contact and they cannot guarantee my places for the DTS's despite them having places available! I am now getting paranoid that they don't want to take DTS2 as I had told them that he has SEN and we were awaiting a Statement and I left a message for the SENCO (in early July) to call me to discuss whether they can support DTS2. Again no response! As they are now trying to push up their results, perhaps they don't want a kid who won't pass any GCSE's, the same as his current school ?

SO the DSs went back to current school. On Tuesday (2nd day back at school) DTS2 got into a fight after school. Apparently a friend of DTS1, tried to push DTS2 in some bushes and chased him (off school grounds) with another boy, he then kicked him, so DTS2 thwacked him with a tree branch that he was playing with and knocked the boy's glasses off. The boy then punched DTS2 in the head and kicked him again before DTS2 ran off. DTS2 told me about this as soon as he got home and asked DTS1 why he was friends with him (this boy has called DTS2 names on Facebook previously) shortly afterwards, DTS1 got a text off the boy saying that he was sorry that he'd had to punch DTS2. He denied kicking him first though. DTS1 texted him back that what he had done was not on and that I would be making a complaint to the school in the morning. The boy then replied that DTS2 would be in more trouble than him as he had a witness - his friend who was with him at the time.

I rang the school first thing the next morning giving DTS2's side, asking for this to be investigated. I then got a call about an hour later telling me that DTS2 was being excluded for 3 days and I was to pick him up immediately for 'violent abuse' of another pupil. I was confused and asked if they had spoken to DTS2 and they said he had admitted hitting the boy with the branch but had not mentioned that he was attacked at all. They said the issue was still being investigated and they did not know who had made the complaint. I said why was DTS2 being excluded when they hadn't finished investigating and it was ME who had made the complaint. The 'pastoral care manager' would not let me speak and just said the decision had been taken by the Head, it would not be discussed further. She was extremely rude and patronising on the phone. When I got there to pick him up, the story had changed and I was told the investigation HAD been concluded and it was the other boy's mother who had made the complaint. There was no record of MY complaint apparently. I asked had they spoken to DTS1 so they could see the texts the boy had sent him. They said it didn't matter. I asked if the other boy had an invisible injuries (as DTS2 had) and was told it didn't matter. I was so furious I was shaking. DTS2 told me that he had not been given the chance to put his side across, just asked if he had hit the boy with a stick, which he said 'Yes' to.

When picking up DTS1 from school that day, I saw the other boy come out from school smirking at me so he had not been excluded. I am not aware if he has had any sanctions and I can only assume that they have accepted his story that he did not attack DTS2 at all. My complaint about him has not been responded to.

Now I would expect DTS2 to get a sanction for 'retaliation' as we have told him time and again, if someone attacks you, walk off and report it (hard enough for any teenager let alone with DTS2's ADHD impulsiveness) but I do not expect him to get a greater punishment (exclusion) than the other child who hit him first who it seems, has not had any sanctions as they have taken his account that DTS2 assaulted him only.

There was a previous incident where a boy admitted punching him first and then DTS2 pushed the boy over and DTS2 was isolated for a week while the other boy involved was not.

Today on day 3 of his exclusion I have finally received a written explanation of why DTS2 was excluded (after having to quote the education act to the Head). It should have been given to me within a school day according to guidelines. It stated that DTS2 was excluded for 'assault' against another pupil. I have to take him for a reintergration meeting on Monday and really can't trust myself not lose my rag.

Due to this, the new school may refuse to admit him as they did say if a child has had an exclusion, they can decide not to take them so when I finally hear from them, DTS2 may not get in anyway.

I am so angry at the school that I do not want to send either DTS back to current school so I don't have to deal with them ever again and want to keep them at home until I hear from the new other if they will accept them. DTS1 has been off school sick for the last two days as he did not want to go back to the school either as he is worried that this 'friend' will start trouble with him too. I don't give a fuck quite frankly about attendance. Both of them have had 100% attendance for the 3 years they have been there.

AIBU to keep them off? WWYD?

saggy your DS sounds similar to mine. A giant sized junior school kid highly frustrated by the expectations to behave like a secondary school child and the constant teasing fir the way they behave.
Then they react with poor behaviour - because they lack the emotional intelligence and language skills to react differently.
But the skills aren't being taught - instead they are being punished for having the Sen in the first place. And so a negative spiral begins.

It's so bad it's infuriating.

And yes yes to bullying parents to the point they remove child to avoid dealing with school. My parents are both teachers and have attended meetings with me at ds old school. After the first one the first thing they said is it's one if 'those' schools. They'll go after you as they don't want to support DS.

They were full of words but absolutely no action. Check back you emails. You may find its like I've experienced where a direct question that requires a direct answer will either be ignored in a wordy email adressing a load of irrelevant stuff or the answer will be dodged around by telling you how they establish the information you've asked for without actually giving it!

OP, you say you applied for an ehcp assessment in march and the LEA agreed to assess and you should hear whether they will issue one. They should have informed you of their decision within 6 weeks and then an ehcp should have been issued within 20 weeks, so not only has your son been failed by the school but the LEA have also failed him. If they are going to issue one your ds should have had it by now.

Not giving eye contact does not = no ASD. So ASD should not have been ruled out on that alone.

Many children with SN will answer a direct question without elucidation, where as NT children will say "yes but"

Not making reasonable adjustments is discrimination on the grounds of disability.

Low keep bullying of both of your sons is not acceptable, and doing nothing when it is disability related is inexcusable.

Has your ds ever been referred to OT & PT? In many areas you can now self refer.

It sounds like the school is deliberately trying for force your ds out.

enterthedragon Sorry, I have missed out a lot in my OP as it was so long. I applied for an EHCP assessment (2nd time) in March and it was initially denied again. The LEA actually rang me and told me that the school were not responding to their requests for information. They also told me that the person who was down as the school SENCO was not a qualified teacher so should not have been acting in that capacity. She was actually the school's Inclusion Manager. I had questioned this before with the school but was fobbed off. I had not at that point had any contact with the school's 'real' SENCO since Yr 7 (person originally in the role left during Yr 7 and a new person took over who I never met). It's been a farce .

I then started the appeal process with the LEA and put in a complaint to the Board of Governors that the school was effectively preventing me from getting DS an assessment together with my concerns about discrimation, with help from IPSEA. It was at that point that the school contacted me, all nicey, nicey to help me get information for the appeal! The school said they were very 'worried' about DS, they also gave me lots of print outs about DS being a 'high needs child' etc. How I kept my cool in that meeting I don't know!

DS also had another Speech and Language assessment at around the same time which showed severe difficulties around several areas of communication. This was triggered when I contacted the SALT therapist, who assessed him in Yr 7, to ask whether the school was correct in stating that his learning diffs were not the reason for his inability to interact correctly with his peers.

I then asked for a meeting with the LEA to see if they would change their mind about not assessing him. The appeal was not due to heard until this month and it would have been next year that it would have been completed if we'd had to wait and DS would have been a few months off Yr11 by then.

We had the meeting in June. The LEA had brought a clinical psychologist with them who read the SALT assessment and they then immediately back tracked and said that they would do an EHCP assessment.

As I had told the LEA that I wanted to move DS to the catchment school, they wanted the SENCO from that school at the outcomes meeting which was due to take place in mid July. The catchment school never responded to the LEA though (or me) which was why we agreed to postpone it until the schools went back. They have still not responded but we have had to set the meeting for next week with DS's current school attending.

I also have the reintegration meeting on Monday (still in two minds on whether to send them back there).

Any tips on keeping my cool appreciated .

I don't drink at all or I'd be taking a water bottle filled with gin to swig before and during the meeting.

Oh, and a massive thanks to all who have contributed to the thread - even the few negative ones. I put it in AIBU because I wanted as many views as possible. I quite often waver and think the school must think I'm crazy and they are right, I am in the wrong and DS is just a horrible brat who I am making excuses for to deny the fact that I must be a shit parent!

I'm sure you've posted about this before and it is quite awful.

tips for keeping your cool -

1. Write down a succinct timeline of all the things you have done to ask for help & the school's response. Print out 2 copies, so that they can keep one.

If you get to the point where you can't speak, you can point to it.

1. Also have a list of DS2's learning difficulties, SALT report etc. Again 2 copies, point if necessary.
2. Any way of recording this meeting? On phone, take a friend, even stop it and ask to clarify points and make a note.
3. Ask to have a glass of water, sip it if you need a few seconds to compose yourself.
4. If necessary - yell. Tell them that they are discriminating against a child with special needs and you will be taking further legal action. Practice the phrase out loud several times in advance, so that if you have to you can say it no matter how upset you are.
5. Put in writing to every fucker who might give a shit that they are discriminating, refuse to support your child, and it is an emotionally and physically unsafe environment for your child. Know that you have that as a fall-back position, and can use it if necessary.
6. Remind them that you are trying to move your child, and that perhaps they could work with you to make the transition speedy and easy for both of your children. their co-operation with the relevant people in the LEA is in ALL of your best interests.

At this stage, you have nothing to lose. You will never have a good relationship with the school, so go for 'I'm THAT mother, and you'd better believe it' as the best option.

btw - I haven't taught in the UK for 8 years, but it used to be the case that if the LEA told a school to take a child it wouldn't matter how many exclusions the child had, the school had to take the child.

Hope you get some sleep, this must be so stressful!

I had many meetings with my son's previous school, the senco and other staff were adamant that there were no academic concerns wrt my son, so they wouldn't get an EP in to do a full assessment instead just an observation was done. A change of placement and a number of years have passed and we've just found out that our son meets the criteria for a SpLD, I have no idea how I'm going to keep my cool over this, it changes everything. I still have a little time to put together a case for tribunal but if I do that then the delays will impact on DS' education at a time when we should be concentrating on securing post 16 education.

Take someone else with you to the reintegration meeting to take notes if you can.

Contact IASS (formally called Parent Partnership) details should be on your areas Local Offer, there should also be details of IS (Independent Support) they will help you with the ehcp process.

Write a list of questions that you want to ask.

I would also inform the LA of what is happening.

Above all just try and keep calm.

I am sorry you have been failed so badly by the school. for you and your son.

OP, I don't have any advice but wanted to add my sympathy and support. My son, now an adult, had (still has) seriously learning difficulties and we did have our struggles trying to get the right placements and the right kind of support for him. He also had behavior issues, which grew from the frustration he felt because of his disability. We did eventually have him privately assessed and as a result moved to a different school district (we are in the States) where the high school had a special education program that provided him with a combination of mainstream and SEN classes, tailored to his particular needs, as well as the accommodations he needed. They also worked with him on his behavior which improved dramatically.

Our struggles were nothing like yours (I'm a lawyer which did help get people's attention), but all I can say is that you are a great advocate for your son and I hope you can find some answers soon.

With regards private EdPsych, they've been a bit disingenuous here. There are certain practitioners who are approved. Our SEN budget is tiny, and when parents have been prepared to do this themselves, we give them the details of the local LEA approved ones. It's been the same for a while (my own little sister had to go to next county for some of her assessments). I'm not sure how you would find this out though.
With regards complaining about the school, you must do so. Particularly about failure to follow correct SEN procedure. Have you contacted your MP about this. A letter from them to the right person can often achieve much more than a parental complaint.

Are you taking your sons word - him saying his role in fights is minor compared to others. Is this true?

It might be actually that your son is starting it or using more violence then others but not admitting this to you. It also might be the other boys first or third fight, while your son is constantly fighting. Constanfighting is s huge issue.

I dont think having SEN means a kid will be physically violent. I can see that sen could result in low level disruption if handled badly.

It's a good idea to push support in school.

However have you considered some kind of farm school? Or courses at college (brick building)? An alternative education. If he's not capable of gcse's, what about helping him do things that build his esteem.

Also complain to the lea and ofsted and your mp

Sounds a nightmare OP. But I'm not surprised. This goes on all the time. Schools fail SN children. The SN system fails SN children.
It drains you, because you are fighting so many sides: trying to remember to phone and email so many people. It sucks everything out of you. It's so incredibly draining. You have my total sympathy.

So is Ds1 still under a Paed?

I'll come to your meetings and do your minutes OP!!
I've been through worse, believe me! My friend took my minutes. She spoke, as a lawyer. It was great.

You need to get organised. Write it down succinctly. Get organised, email the 6 of 7 different fractions. No Long essays, they know the history. Just ask to them to confirm the date of ..... The next thing.

This sounds nightmarish.

What jumps out at me, is that their current school would be desperate for you to move him. From my experience, schools don't want to keep students who cause problems in their school if there is an option to move them elsewhere and (being optimistic) give the students a fresh start and (being cynical) pass the problem onto someone else. Either way, they should be jumping at the chance to get him off roll.

The school should be doing everything they can to get him a place at an SEN school (and I guess this is your preference too?) and the option I would push for over the reluctant and disorganised closer school.

Constant fighting is a huge issue.

Yes it is. But most children who fight constantly have underlying issues that should be being addressed. In this case, constant teasing and goading and conditions and developmental delays that make it difficult or impossible for him to not react aggressively to malicious provocation. Even if he were not provoked, if he has been fighting constantly and given that he has known SENs then he should have been moved away from this environment into a more suitable one long ago. Or given a 1-1 to help him stay on track.

OP I second the suggestion that you should take someone into the meeting with you, not only to take minutes but someone who is clued up about what you should be entitled to and prepared to prompt you and speak up on your behalf if you come unstuck or get shouted down.

You are doing all the eight things IMO. It's exactly what I've done and am doing.

Thing is that schools that don't respond are clever and will talk the talk whilst making out they are doing everything yet do nothing.

And they get away with it [anger]

I'd make another official complaint. I bcc the MP into mine so the school don't know I emailed her but yet I have made her aware should I require her support.
I was asked what I wanted from investigation - I said that once completed I fully expected them to follow their staff disaplinary procedures, update policies and carry out relevant training as necessary. Make them sit up and listen that you are holding school responsible for failing your son.
I'm also going to now use it to make sure they do everything possible to get DS a secure placement of what he needs. He won't be coming off roll there until they have.
That includes if new school offer a place after managed move not signing or accepting until support is set up.

I honestly don't believe anything will come from the complaint but I'm looking at it at making everyone involved having to feel some of the stress and anxiety around the issue as DS and I have!

I'd suggest that before the intergration meeting you look at schools sen support policy. Highlight what they've done and find the next step of interventions if that doesn't work. Ask them why they haven't done it and get them to agree what if these steps they are willing to try. Then get it all written down and copy in la to the email to confirm. If they refuse to do more then play the dumb card of clarification.

"I may be confused but can you confirm that indeed you said despite providing X y and z at Sen support level and it not working you are not going to get an EP involved or put in extra support (eg ......) to help DS manage school and prevent further exclusions?"

The cerebra toolkit is a great resource for situations like this

The LA and Ofsted presumably know that the school does not have a qualified teacher as SENCO OP? I'd put them in the picture if they don't.

Good luck at meeting. Keep the emotion out of it. Hard I know.

Take notes with you, clear bullet points.

Have questions written down, keep them open ended so they can't fob you off. If they agree to something write it down. Make a note of names.

At a not too good school I worked in years ago, we had a parent ,end of his tether poor man,bring a friend with him to his son's statement review., and the friend took notes and asked if he could record the meeting on a tape recorder. SENCO said no, so friend went off and asked the Head, who reluctantly agreed.

Well as an update we were told that DTS2 will get an EHC Plan today. 3 years and 2 refusals to assess later and we finally got there! I feel vindicated. This whole thing has been so crazy making (and I already was, have OCD and panic disorder) and I quite often thought the school must be right and I was making a fuss about nothing .

He will need a LOT of provision but at least he should finally get it. I burst into tears at the meeting with the LEA and DS's current school when the brand new SENCO (who apparently was not aware of the history with the school) asked me why the relationship with the school had broken down. Well the fact that I had to fight for this long on my own was just a tiny part of it!

I have kept both boys off school until now as I expected the school that I want to move them to to have contacted me by now bangs head against wall but still nothing. I have taken the advice of a PP and threatened appealing as I will assume they have been refused places if I don't hear by Friday. No acknowledgement of email.

I have no choice but to send them back to current school tomorrow as I can't keep them off any longer. They are driving me nuts at home. So will have to face the reintegration meeting for DTS2 in the morning! I will try to stay deadpan and when we can discuss what can be done to make sure DS does not repeat the behaviours that led to the exclusion, I will say that perhaps he should not have been attacked first!

I have made a complaint to the Board of Governors about his exclusion and they are currently arranging a meeting so got that to look forward to as well!

I also hope his current school feel a bit shit that I got DS an EHC Plan when they said he did not need one and did nothing to support me getting him one.

getting one now doesn't mean he needed one three years ago, You seem very caught up on "winning" - not sure what you think you've "won". The only person who can "make sure DS does not repeat these behaviours" is DS.

I hope our biys settle back down into schoo without any further disruption to their education, particularly as DS1 didn't seem to have any reason to be off, he wasn't excluded, was he?

Why were they "driving you nuts" at home?

Good luck in the meetng OP!

Longlost Thanks for your contribution. DS was diagnosed with an IQ of 70, 3 years ago so I think an EHCP was a necessity then. He's not going to magically get 'better'. If you had gone through 10 years of crap with schools who would rather label your child as 'naughty' and just needed to 'work harder' when all along he had severe difficulties that they couldn't be bothered to put the effort in to understand or support, then you might feel a little bit like you had 'won' for HIM after all this time.

Perhaps if the school had addressed the bullying and social exclusion that DS has experienced, he would not need to 'repeat these behaviours' bearing in mind he retaliated to being attacked.

DTS1 did not want to return to his current school and was very happy to move schools (he has suffered low level bullying for years because of who his brother is and he was also very upset with the way the school have dealt with his brother) so the only ones who have 'disrupted' his education are the new school who have refused to respond to my application for him to move, well within their timescales for the start of the new school year, with no explanation whatsover.

The meeting with the current school this morning was all about 'building bridges' between us and the school which I rather think is due to DTS2 getting his EHCP. I was given a copy the Incident Report from last week which was a few lines on a plain piece of paper with no title or name of who wrote it. The boy involved stated that he only put his leg and arm 'in the air' not hitting DS and his witness said he did not see whether he hit DS. The DS's did not want to go but they are back now and we will see what happens.

Not had time to RTFT I'm afraid but have skimmed through.

I am a senco and what you have experienced is unacceptable. It sounds like serious incompetence on the part of the school. I imagine they have failed to keep proper records and follow protocol, which is why they are dragging their feet in responding to the LA.

Sencos don't have to be teachers, but it's good practice if they are.

I'd try to take someone with you to any meetings. Not to say anything, but just to be there as a witness and support for you. They should visibly make notes.

What area are you in? Feel free to pm me. If you're in my area then I can recommend an organisation you could contact for support and advocacy (for free).

Good luck. Your sons are lucky to have you advocating for them.

I could weep as I have one dc at home with similar issues who is unable to attend school as the right support has not been given. For those saying PRU or SS might be better, are you aware how hard it is to get a place at either?

My dc would need a place in an ASD unit, which has 12 places and approx 300 children on the waiting list!

I really hope you get things sorted OP, it seems you haven't left any stone unturned which is great. Keep a paper trail of everything, keep on at the BoG's and don't back down.