FURIOUS! AIBU to not return my DTSs to school on Monday? Blood boiling!

[SaggyBaggyPuss]

This is way too long but I can't make it any shorter and I've spent an inordinate amount of time trying to so apologies in advance!

DTSs have been at their current secondary since Yr7. It is an outstanding school and very highly thought of so I was delighted they got in. It is not the nearest school, about 45 mins walk away, but the closest one, 10 mins walk away, was in Special Measures when we applied for Secondary.

In the first term of Yr 7, DTS2 was diagnosed with ADHD, severe learning difficulties (mental age 4-5 years below actual age) and working memory problems. We had waited 2 years for diagnosis at that point and had pushed for an assessment since Reception Yr but Primary School labelled him as naughty and did not support my view that there was something wrong with him. I contacted the secondary school before he started there and requested a meeting to explain that we were awaiting an assessment, discussed low level 'silly' behaviour difficulties that DTS2 had, together with the fact that he was 4 years behind average attainment. I was also very anxious about the transition as I knew he would struggle.

No support was put in place from the start, they basically ignored what I told them despite him being on School Action+ all through primary school. He did not have any plan/IEP drawn up until the 2nd term of Yr7 after I pushed for it and was left in mainstream lessons until I bugged them to put him in SEN classes. Apart from a few silly incidents where he retaliated to being called 'retard' etc (he has an odd gait and other kids have picked up on his LD's), constant detentions for not doing homework (impossible for me to make him) and forgetting things, things were reasonably OK until he started Yr 9.

I had applied for a statement of SN's (EHCP) for him in Yr 7 as soon as we got diagnosis but it was denied as the school had not shown that they had offered him support. I did not know at that point that I should have appealed.

There were a few incidents of other boys challenging him to fights after school (he's over 6ft and the smaller boys wanted to 'take him down') and he did not have the maturity to ignore. The name calling started up and as he did not report it (was afraid he would be blamed), when he called names back the other kids would report him.

Anyway it all came to a head when he was threatened with permanent exclusion for persistently breaching the school's behaviour policy but a lot of it was minor - forgetting equipment, pushing the gate buzzer for too long, not going to registration because he was hiding in the toilets. He was regularly put into isolation as well and not getting lunch as he was not told to go.

At this point, I started getting angry too late and asked the school what they were doing to support his SEN and his behaviour. I had an awful meeting with the Head who denied that his LD's, ADHD and memory problems would affect his behaviour so according to them he was deliberately being 'naughty' and apparently DTS2 agreed with this, when asked .

I then made a complaint against the school for discrimination of DS due to his SEN as the school said they could not make 'reasonable adjustments' for him as they had to treat ALL children exactly the same. The Chair of the Governing Body did not address my complaint at all and only discussed putting him on behaviour report. I asked for a response to my complaint in writing and it was ignored.

I asked if they could get an Educational Psychologist in to see him and they refused. I also asked for the school to apply for a statement of SEN themselves and they refused so I applied again myself in March this year and this time they agreed to assess him for one and I should find out next week if they are giving him one (looks likely). I found out when I asked the school to provide me evidence of what support he's getting I had to create a massive fuss for them to tell me and they ignored my requests that it is virtually nothing and even they said his attainment is 'worrying' from looking at his assessments but they still did nothing to support him .

It is evident that they have been trying to get rid of DTS2 as he will impact on their results. They have told me that if he can't settle and learn, they would prefer to offer his place to someone on the waiting list who can. They have also blatantly lied - telling the Education Authority that they never threatened permanent exclusion when I have an email from them saying this, and I was phoned every week with the threat of it if he did not get enough points on his behaviour chart, and denying that I had given them DTS2 medical reports detailing his diagnosis so they weren't aware of it . I have had to constantly fight them for support for DTS2 and was told that it was an utter nightmare with calls most days telling me he was being put in isolation.

I had decided to move schools for both DTS's as DTS1 who was in top set for everything has gone very downhill recently and has also experienced low level bullying and he said he wanted to move too, but was trying to wait until we had got confirmation that DTS2 was getting a Statement (EHCP) so support would be in place for him from the start.

The new school is our catchment school which is now out of Special Measures and has had a major turn around now, and DTS1 has friends who are already there. I applied for a transfer for both of them at the end of June hoping that there would be enough time for the school to process it before they broke up for the summer hols and the DTSs could start there when they went back this week, but I was informed on the last day of school (after constant chasing with no response) that they had not even looked at my applications as they were 'too busy' and I would have to wait until Sept for them to contact me. This week, I have been told that I will have to wait until next week for them to contact and they cannot guarantee my places for the DTS's despite them having places available! I am now getting paranoid that they don't want to take DTS2 as I had told them that he has SEN and we were awaiting a Statement and I left a message for the SENCO (in early July) to call me to discuss whether they can support DTS2. Again no response! As they are now trying to push up their results, perhaps they don't want a kid who won't pass any GCSE's, the same as his current school ?

SO the DSs went back to current school. On Tuesday (2nd day back at school) DTS2 got into a fight after school. Apparently a friend of DTS1, tried to push DTS2 in some bushes and chased him (off school grounds) with another boy, he then kicked him, so DTS2 thwacked him with a tree branch that he was playing with and knocked the boy's glasses off. The boy then punched DTS2 in the head and kicked him again before DTS2 ran off. DTS2 told me about this as soon as he got home and asked DTS1 why he was friends with him (this boy has called DTS2 names on Facebook previously) shortly afterwards, DTS1 got a text off the boy saying that he was sorry that he'd had to punch DTS2. He denied kicking him first though. DTS1 texted him back that what he had done was not on and that I would be making a complaint to the school in the morning. The boy then replied that DTS2 would be in more trouble than him as he had a witness - his friend who was with him at the time.

I rang the school first thing the next morning giving DTS2's side, asking for this to be investigated. I then got a call about an hour later telling me that DTS2 was being excluded for 3 days and I was to pick him up immediately for 'violent abuse' of another pupil. I was confused and asked if they had spoken to DTS2 and they said he had admitted hitting the boy with the branch but had not mentioned that he was attacked at all. They said the issue was still being investigated and they did not know who had made the complaint. I said why was DTS2 being excluded when they hadn't finished investigating and it was ME who had made the complaint. The 'pastoral care manager' would not let me speak and just said the decision had been taken by the Head, it would not be discussed further. She was extremely rude and patronising on the phone. When I got there to pick him up, the story had changed and I was told the investigation HAD been concluded and it was the other boy's mother who had made the complaint. There was no record of MY complaint apparently. I asked had they spoken to DTS1 so they could see the texts the boy had sent him. They said it didn't matter. I asked if the other boy had an invisible injuries (as DTS2 had) and was told it didn't matter. I was so furious I was shaking. DTS2 told me that he had not been given the chance to put his side across, just asked if he had hit the boy with a stick, which he said 'Yes' to.

When picking up DTS1 from school that day, I saw the other boy come out from school smirking at me so he had not been excluded. I am not aware if he has had any sanctions and I can only assume that they have accepted his story that he did not attack DTS2 at all. My complaint about him has not been responded to.

Now I would expect DTS2 to get a sanction for 'retaliation' as we have told him time and again, if someone attacks you, walk off and report it (hard enough for any teenager let alone with DTS2's ADHD impulsiveness) but I do not expect him to get a greater punishment (exclusion) than the other child who hit him first who it seems, has not had any sanctions as they have taken his account that DTS2 assaulted him only.

There was a previous incident where a boy admitted punching him first and then DTS2 pushed the boy over and DTS2 was isolated for a week while the other boy involved was not.

Today on day 3 of his exclusion I have finally received a written explanation of why DTS2 was excluded (after having to quote the education act to the Head). It should have been given to me within a school day according to guidelines. It stated that DTS2 was excluded for 'assault' against another pupil. I have to take him for a reintergration meeting on Monday and really can't trust myself not lose my rag.

Due to this, the new school may refuse to admit him as they did say if a child has had an exclusion, they can decide not to take them so when I finally hear from them, DTS2 may not get in anyway.

I am so angry at the school that I do not want to send either DTS back to current school so I don't have to deal with them ever again and want to keep them at home until I hear from the new other if they will accept them. DTS1 has been off school sick for the last two days as he did not want to go back to the school either as he is worried that this 'friend' will start trouble with him too. I don't give a fuck quite frankly about attendance. Both of them have had 100% attendance for the 3 years they have been there.

AIBU to keep them off? WWYD?

You could contact the local police re the assault a teenager over 6 feet tall hit another boy with a tree branch he claimed to just have on him while he was being chased? After school, off school premises, and with a witness to say it was an unprovoked attack? Don't contact the police, even with your retelling through a mothers eyes, it looks very bad for your son indeed.

Why so much against prus? What do you think they are for? What do you think they do? In your position, this is what I would be looking in to. You must be aware that LD and ADHD are not going to ever be held responsible for this level of consistent poor behaviour, either in an educationally nor legally.

i am sorry you are distressed, and I can see you want the best for your son, but why not consider whether a pru would be the best thing for him? I just don't understand what you want from the school. Nothing that a school can offer is going to prevent him hitting people with tree branches, outside of school hours and off school premises. Nor can they handcuff him or lock him into the room during the school day.

Behaviour is a form of communication it can be, a lot of the time it isn't , it is just a lot more fun to behave badly.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you, this must be so stressful. I hope you get your twin boys into the closer school as soon as possible.

This sort of shit is HOW a lot of "outstanding" schools get to be judged that way. It's not right and it boils my piss. It's cheating the system. It's selection by the backdoor.

I've worked at a special measures (which came out of SM while I was there), school and we had families that had no choice or didn't give a fuck. We also had a lot of children with a major range of special needs. It's not a coincidence. The SN children were not being educated at their previous schools.

I worked at a "good" school where the SN children were not allowed to take GCSE science even if they really wanted to give it a go. I could have got them to a G or an F level, but that would have looked bad on our stats, so they had to do some bullshit certificate. No resources or training for that programme either.

I completely disagree with Longhorns statement that his ADHD and LDs could account for his lack of homework, truanting in the loos and getting into fights. If a child is constantly unhappy and bullied or goaded for his differences then all those things can and will happen as a result.

However I do strongly agree with her next post - he is not being well served in this school and possibly not in any mainstream school for that matter and would probably be happier and better supported in a specialist school for pupils who have behavioral problems as a co-morbid consequence of their ADHD and LDs or other related conditions. I am of the opinion that the relatively recent obsession with inclusion at all costs is frequently counterproductive and more damaging for the child's wellbeing than being provided with a non mainstream education where he might feel less out of his depth and therefore less likely to end up reacting to triggers. Not to mention the disruption to other pupils.

You have been spectacularly failed for so long by so many people and it's very sad that it's had to come this far and get this bad before something constructive can be done. I hope you now get the support you both deserve but if it were my son I would be fighting hard for a place in a specialist school.

Longlost don't know why that came out as Longhorns

Maybe because the standard of PRUS differs massively? And possibly for a child with SEN a special school where his needs could be met appropriately might be better than chucking him into a setting designed to control badly behaved young people via restraint and locked doors as a last resort.

A PRU will be full of kids who are school refuses and often violent with Tendencies towards crime and self destruction. Sure they will often have emotional and behavioral issues as a result of chaotic parenting and unstable family backgrounds but not necessarily because of LDs. I think putting him in an environment where the bullying or fighting might be even worse is a recipe for disaster. He could get worse and go off the rails completely, depending on who he meets there.

A nurturing and supportive specialist school or unit within a school would be better.

Is it really the best thing for DST1 to move or be taken out of school into limbo? I can understand why you have lost faith in the school over DST2 but your other son had been doing well there. Does he want to move?

Crossed posts with noeuf completely agree.

I don't think restraint is more likely in a PRU than to the same students in mainstream, locked doors are hardly a hindrance to learning, and control can be very effective.

PRUs often get excellent outcomes for individuals, who respond to the small group size, closer relationships, more predictable discipline and more formal structure.

Special schools can be good, but what takes some parents by surprise is that individual support is often far less in special schools than in mainstream. If there is an appropriate special school nearby, then it could be worth looking in to.

wonder that's exactly what I've been saying about the situation at DS school.

It is exclusion by default - eg child ends up excluding the self rather than school doing it.

And why the continual bullshit about her son attacking another long? He was attacked and retaliated. Not saying relatiating is ok but I'm sure as hell if any of us were being kicked in the head we'd defend ourselves. It's a biological evaluationary instinct.

The school have failed her DTS2. They've failed to attempt to put things in place to enable him to access the education on offer. They've failed to make resaconable adjustments for him to manage what's happening in school and access what's available.
Whether this would or wouldn't have made him to manage MS with ADHD and LD is unknown but instead of support and effective move in his best interests they've failed him, probably damaged him further and forced a move - which if done properly could have been far more effective and successful.

I'm a mum of adhd boys. I can easily see how adhd leads to behaviours. Mine are primary and one has a particularly reactive agressive streak and don't speak to me about hw wars.

I'd repost in sen boards. They are brilliant at givig advice esp which direction to go in. There's charity's you can phone to take best steps. Most mums of sen have to become very pushy and have good legal knowledge sadly. The school have let u down. If they cannot cope then they should be getting him assessed to facilitate movement to a unit/different school if that's what your son needs

On a side note. Is your ds under a pead? We had very good results with adhd medication after much soul searching.

You need to list your concerns in a report.

Clearly under subheadings i.e. SEN concerns, Bullying policy concerns, Staff Responses, etc, so that it clearly highlights your many justified concerns.

This needs to be sent to the LEA, governors of the school, possibly local MP.

You have a lot of relevant concerns. For example students in Inclusion cannot miss breaks and lunch.

I work in a High School btw.

Covering letter explaining that due to your many concerns you will be keeping both boys from school, until issues are resolved with existing school.

The new school if it has places and is in catchment will take your sons, but I would move the DS with the SEN issues first, he's the priority.

And as a parent you most certainly can contact Ofsted. I know a school which had an inspection triggered by a parent due to unresolved bullying. The behaviour policy had to be completely rewritten.

It sounds as though - as many cases - your son's particular educational needs are compounded by other difficulties with behaviour. I think it is reasonable for a school to say, at some point, that the situation isn't working and to require your child to adhere to the behaviour policy. I appreciate you are angry about the way certain things have been handled, but the bottom line is, he hit another child with whatever weapon was lying around. That is pretty serious.

I would recommend you contact a solicitor specialising in SEN, contact IPSEA, look to get a private educational psychologist involved to help with your appeal of a statutory assessment and to make recommendations and get a behaviour analyst in that can help work on giving your son strategies on how to deal with his emotions-doing homework- what to do when someone else name calls or does something inappropriate- and also advocate with you, on behalf of your son. Caudwell children charity fund behaviour analysts but I am unaware of funding available for a private ed psych and solicitor. I can recommend a few though if you want to look them up. Best wishes

Are these state schools or academies?

feel so badly for you and your ds can't really add anything but what has gone before, but get one thing straight - you are trying to your best for your son, you are not 'that parent', i had a hell of a time getting my ds1 diagnosed asd, he went through to yr 7 before it was confirmed, there had been problems [he was 12 wk prem] from the word go but i was always treated as the first time neurotic type mum, i understand your frustrations of no one listening, being ignored and being pulled into school because of behaviour etc, it is heart breaking.

I feel so sorry for you OP.
Have you looked into whether there are any support groups locally? Where I am there is a group called Support4SEND for parents of children with SEN. They offer advice and can go into meetings at schools with you. Although you are right to say that Ofsted will not investigate an individual complaint, you can fill in the parent view survey any time, and they will conduct an early investigation if there are some negative surveys appearing (I know of a school locally that this happened to). You may also want to read the SEN and Disability Code Of Practice 2015, as well as read through the school's own policies on SEN and bullying. You may well find that the school are failing to follow the code of practice and even their own policies. I wish the very best of luck

This is why children with Sen get such a reputation as having bad behaviour rather than being human.

People are still focusing on him hitting other child.
Yes he did. But he didn't approach other child and he didn't start a fight with other child - he just retaliated.

This is just what this school and others do. Ignore the facts and twist them to suit their own agenda.
Child who retaliated has behavioural issues etc etc and needs removing because they have Sen.
Child who started the fight is cleared because their academic ability will reflect well on the school.

It's fucking shit and doesn't teach our children that we grow up in a democracy and judicial country.

Chocolate are you in 'H' county?

Just to agree with LongLosts post regarding special schools, many special schools lump different learning needs together and this means that learning can be stunted for those who aren't as behind as others. I've seen it happen where a child has unlearnt how to read within a year at a special school.

youarenotkiddingme just to give the other side as we are being given one side of the story, many children go home and say they retaliated when in actual fact they didn't. Why did he have a branch in his hand for example?

I think the school is trying to manage him out and you should deal with DTS2 and where you go with him leave DTS1 as I assume they are in Year 10 now, it's not really a great time for moving him if he is doing well.

What are his severe learning difficulties? Are there special schools that specialise in his specific LD nearby?

I agree with carry2012. Write everything down in a report, sections get out each point and giving clear dates and evidence. Try and remove the emotion from it. Send it to the head, the chair of goveners, the LEA, the EWO and to OFSTED, but do get someone not emotionally invested to read it first. Put in a covering letter stating that you would like a response within 7 days. Then contact as many charities as you can find that work with young people who have your sons additional needs.
Mainstream schools, with the best will in the world, are not necessarily able to support all learners (I'm a secondary teacher). In a class of 30 with no TA or other support, your child has approximately 1 minute of my time available to them. I can print work out on coloured paper, I can break tasks down into numbered steps, I can print stuff bigger, I can sit the child at the back so they don't have an audience, or by the door so they have an escape route, or by the window so they don't feel claustrophobic, but what I can't do is deal with constant disruptive behaviour irrespective of what's causing that. I will use the behaviour consequence system and have the child removed from the room if I need to. I have one class of students with 8 that are either listed as 'mild' or 'moderate' learning difficulties, or social and behavioural difficulties which is perhaps what your DT2 would be listed as. I get no TA support with that as there are not enough to go around and it tends to get focussed on those with statements and in Eng & Maths.
You are most definitely not that parent, you are just trying to do the best for your child. But please remember, you are working in a system in constant flux where teachers and schools are being pushed harder and harder.
That doesn't help you or your son in the least, but please know that I am trying my best in the classroom to give your child what they need to grow and develop. (That's the generic 'your child' btw!).

youarenotkiddingme you are correct that people are seeing that and assuming the OP's son is at fault. However, I have to say from the schools reaction that he is often involved in fights at school. For example I have a friend whose DS was isolated in school for "pushing a boy who had punched him earlier" that was what his mum said no the reality was he punched the boy and the boy had never touched him. Her son is very violent and will use his fists at the first opportunity but her son told her x happened and so thats what she told everyone. She could not accept that her son had lied or twisted the truth.

Bah I meant to say I assumed from the schools reaction....

About the move to the new school.

Because he has been excluded it is a managed move. Although the school have places they do not have to take him and indeed the process is that there will be a meeting and they will look at which local school is best placed.

That may be a specialist unit or provision or a special school.

That is the process. He is a child with an EHCPlan who has been excluded. It will not be a straight froward move.

You need to get all of the LA policies as it does vary. Read up on them and be well prepared. Decide what you think the best option would be and push for it.