To think home schooling should be better monitored?

[Mollymoo78]

One of my FB friends from my toddler group days has announced on FB that she's home schooling her four year old. She was always very very attached to him and never had a moment away from him ie a night out. She breast fed him well into his fourth year and carried him in a sling when he got tired. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm genuinely wondering if her decision to home school has more to do with her being reluctant to let him go.

Her comments on FB are "well I have no precise plans as to what I'm going to do but they learn through play at this age anyway so it doesn't matter". I just felt quite uncomfortable reading that. It all sounds very vague. My dd has started school recently and loves it - the socialisation with her peers and older children, the physical activity, getting independence and rewards for her achievements. She's playing yes but she's also being taught to read and write. But what if this boy isn't given these things - who is going to be checking up on the education he's being given?

I don't mean to put a downer on homeschooling - I've no doubt it's the perfect option for those whose children don't gel with school but shouldn't you at least try school first? Am I wrong to question this in my mind?

Really interesting post imperial

I hadn't considered a lot of those things. The big issue that stands out is the abuse point. It seems a lot of cases are flagged up in school, there isn't that safeguard in HE

Taking away the social aspect of school and the fact it's necessary (in my opinion) for someone outside of the family to look at the child to check there's no abuse (and I know that check doesn't always work but if for example a child is hungry or dirty, it's immediately noticeable)

Social aspect of school? Sitting in a room with 30 odd other kids chosen for no reason other than their age is not being anywhere near as social as freely engaging with people you fancy engaging with.

HE children also tend to be highly visible in their comunities because it attracts attention, they also see the same doctors the same nurses the same dentists as schooled children they also attend the same sorts of groups and clubs as schooled children as well as groups for other HE children. The only people that HE children do not come into contact with are teachers in schools.

One of the negative things HE kids reported as a negative after HE is the social aspect

True ourserendipitoushome there are certainly no guarantees.

I've learned a lot from this thread that despite Googling for bloody ages, I couldn't find the answers to.

I'm still a little uncomfortable at the lack of monitoring though and the lack of statistics surrounding how successful HE tends to be, compared to schooled children.

But I guess it's probably a bit pointless if the parents who are happy for their DC to be monitored, just end up 'box ticked' by some LAs and those who aren't happy to be monitored can't be forced anyway.

It sounds like it's all a bit of pot luck in terms of whether a child is being HE by a capable adult or one that's woefully inadequate and there's no way the LAs can really find out (even if they are interested).

I suppose the same could be said for some schools, although at least woefully inadequate schools will be OFSTED inspected and put into special measures.

hadn't considered a lot of those things. The big issue that stands out is the abuse point. It seems a lot of cases are flagged up in school, there isn't that safeguard in HE

Yes there are those safeguards.

It would be quite difficult in this day and age to be totally off the radar, to start with you would have had to have had a hidden pregnancy with no antinatal care, no midwife at a birth.no medical care. Obviously people can and do go to those lengths but I would guess it would be fairly unusual

Can I just say I'm not against HE - my friend home educates her child who has a chronic illness and can't attend school. She is amazing but it's hard work for her.

My question was a genuine question and a concern for children falling under the radar or missing out on a life experience (school) they may have found rewarding.

Didn't work for Daniel Pelka did it? Or Baby P who admittedly wasn't in school but was heavily involved with his local authority.

Needsasockamnesty - yes of course there's a social aspect to school - it's what most children enjoy about school, that they can make friends and play and learn together. And of course they don't only play with people their own age; in the playground they all mix. I don't see what's wrong with playing with their own age group, though, in any case. An eleven year old will have different interests to a four year old.

YABU and you are judging her about something you clearly know little about. Also I can't quite work out what on earth it has to do with you?

No Imperial a physics teacher wouldnt be asked to teach art in a secondary school, they would just sit and babysit the class while they were covering it!

I am not going to enter into any arguments tonight but just wanted to add that my Dd3 was failed by 3 (yes 3) mainstream schools and we went to court 3 times (yes 3) to try to get her the help she needed to stay in school! We didnt manage it, by the time all the legal paperwork was finished she was too broken to continue.

Thank goodness for Home Ed, we are just entering our 2nd yr, our child is happy for the first time in yrs!

Our LA know where we are but have chosen to leave us alone despite us asking for help from Ss over a yr ago!

We dont need their "help" now, we are doing ok thanks to the support from the amazing home ed community in our area!

Dont judge what you dont understand OP!!

Didn't work for Daniel Pelka did it? Or Baby P who admittedly wasn't in school but was heavily involved with his local authority.

You don't hear about the stories in which it has been caught though do you?

The chances of a dentist spotting anything are pretty minimal I would have thought. No offence to dentists but that doesn't reassure me at all.

needs and what about when they're older? I'm not saying they're off the radar from birth, that would be ridiculous, I'm saying there isn't much opportunity for assessment as they get older if they're not at school and are potentially being isolated.

No you tend to just hear about the failures it's true and many of them were in school and being monitored extensively supposedly.

YABU especially as the little boy is only 4. He actually doesn't even have to be in school until he is 5. Reception isn't compulsory.
His Mother is right learning through play is the best way for a 4 year old.

I pulled DS out of school 18 months ago, when he was 6. He has ASD and his experience of school was horrendous. Removing him was our only option, I believe, to protect his mental health. We welcomed a visit from the LEA, mainly because I wanted the opportunity to rant about the school! I got the impression that the meeting from her point of view was really to see the kind of people we were and the environment DS was in. She wrote a glowing report and told us that she didn't need to see us again unless we requested a visit. That was over a year ago and we have heard nothing since.

I do have mixed feelings about monitoring. My concerns are really about how they would measure a child's learning or progress since HE isn't about replicating school and there are many different philosophies that parents use to teach.
On the other hand though I do worry about children who aren't getting a positive experience of HE and may be falling through the cracks.

There do seem to me to be different groups that HE parents fall into. A great number are parents who have taken their DC out of school due to SN and their needs not being met. Others do it as a lifestyle choice, wanting to be 'off the grid.' These are often extreme about other issues such as being anti vaxers and can get quite angry with those who chose to allow LEA visits. They see any visits and monitoring as state intrusion and see those who communicate with the authorities as letting the side down. There are some of these families that I have met who I do believe could do with some intervention and our experiences with some of them have lead us to avoid certain groups and meet ups. Not sure what the answer is really.

ImperialBlether

Taking away the social aspect of school and the fact it's necessary (in my opinion) for someone outside of the family to look at the child

My children see doctors, health professionals, swimming teachers, drama teachers, family members, dentists, hair dressers, shop keepers, sports coaches, neighbours, builders (in our home), choir teachers etc..

Surely that is enough 'out side of the home people' looking in our lives?

But honestly the social aspect of school? What does that actually mean? There have been so many studies done about what is true socialisation. As an adult, I don't just mix with people my own own age. I mix with many different ages- yet in school, everyone sticks to their form. How is that true socialisation?

In a high school you'd never get an English teacher to be asked to teach Physics, or a Maths teacher to teach art. The reason you want a specialist is so that your child is a) taught accurately and b) stretched or helped to achieve.

Have you actually read any of the posts by home educators? Many of us outsource these subjects, employ tutors, send our kids to college/school or actually are bright enough to tackle those subjects. My 9 year old this year, has had lectures in astrophysics by university lecturers.

With the best will in the world I know I couldn't teach my children science

Yet that is the yard rod you are measuring by. What you are capable of. What you think is right. What you could or could not do.

Baby P's mother decides to home educate... should we let her? If not, where's the line to be drawn?

Baby P's mother was known to authorities. She was known before she even had a child. She was known because of the abuse she herself suffered.

The failure in Baby P's case was a failure because people didn't do their jobs, and didn't look after a child, who was known to authorities, and whose mother is known to authorities.

I mean really? Are you insinuating, that every home educator is as tragic a case as that little boy?

My Mum was very physically abusive to me, I told many people about it at various schools I went to, including teachers, nothing was ever done. I'm talking black eyes, bruised face and body. I have no faith at all in school being a protective mechanism for children.

Our preliminary research suggests that homeschooled children are at a greater risk of dying from child abuse than are traditionally schooled children. This preliminary finding is based on an analysis of the cases in our Homeschooling’s Invisible Children (HIC) database and on national government reports on child maltreatment. When we compare the rate of child abuse fatalities among homeschooled families to the rate of child abuse fatalities overall, we see a higher rate of death due to abuse or neglect among homeschooled students than we do among children of the same age overall."

hsinvisiblechildren.org/

imperial do you imagine that HE kids are normally prevented from socialising?

and school may have a social aspect to it but it's enforced and a bit staged and not the same type of social as something you actively choose to do with people you choose to do it with.

HE kids have the same parks the same streets the same neighbourhoods as schooled kids they are often friends with schooled children as well as HE children

No Imperial a physics teacher wouldnt be asked to teach art in a secondary school, they would just sit and babysit the class while they were covering it!

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean?

I think Imperial is saying that no 1 senior school teacher is an expert in all subjects.

For example the average maths teacher would be unable to teach French or Spanish.

The average Science teacher would be unable to teach History or Geography.

Senior school teachers tend to specialise in one or two subjects, unlike Primary school teachers who teach a bit of everything.

But a more concentrated level of expertise is required to teach certain subjects at GCSE and A level.

No-one can be an expert in all subjects.

No, I think there's a huge range of HEdders and some children will socialise and some won't.

School is not 'a bit staged' any more than you introducing your children to others in the hope they might get on is staged.

one thing I have learnt as a parent is there is more than one way to do it right..

I have seen people failing in school. So don't assume it is great for everyone.. I don't know anyone HE to comment.

I do wonder about the children who are registered as HE which in reality aren't..Not the people who attend HE groups.. The children not in a rich environment to learn.. Though those children whose parents are neglectful are unlikey to thrive at school either...So not sure what the answer is really...

Can I ask for the people been HE for many years are the numbers of children HE increasing as I had never really heard much about it in the UK until recently.. I can imagine the changes in education could drive more to HE.

brasty are you in America?

It is my understanding that the UK and USA tend to have different views on HE and the UK does not have a hugely significant volume of entire comunities who HE along side living off grid like the usa does. (But my understanding of HE in the USA is confined to a few select groups of comunities)

That's terrifying brasty.

I was reading up on it more, this is from a US site but they stated 16% of abuse cases were reported by teachers. That's 16 of of one hundred children who would have gone missed if not for formal education.

www.responsiblehomeschooling.org/policy-issues/abuse-and-neglect/homeschooling-abuse-concealing-abuse/

and that's a website that advocates for safe homeschooling.

I'd be interested to see UK stats.