To think home schooling should be better monitored?

[Mollymoo78]

One of my FB friends from my toddler group days has announced on FB that she's home schooling her four year old. She was always very very attached to him and never had a moment away from him ie a night out. She breast fed him well into his fourth year and carried him in a sling when he got tired. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm genuinely wondering if her decision to home school has more to do with her being reluctant to let him go.

Her comments on FB are "well I have no precise plans as to what I'm going to do but they learn through play at this age anyway so it doesn't matter". I just felt quite uncomfortable reading that. It all sounds very vague. My dd has started school recently and loves it - the socialisation with her peers and older children, the physical activity, getting independence and rewards for her achievements. She's playing yes but she's also being taught to read and write. But what if this boy isn't given these things - who is going to be checking up on the education he's being given?

I don't mean to put a downer on homeschooling - I've no doubt it's the perfect option for those whose children don't gel with school but shouldn't you at least try school first? Am I wrong to question this in my mind?

The children should be able to demonstrate that they at the minimum have basic skills. I am not talking about at age 4, 5 or 6. But 9, 10 year olds should not be illiterate or without basic arithmetic skills.

I believe it is about integrating into society. Being HE is not compatible with that, however many groups or activities some HE attend.

What do you mean? In what way are H.ed dc not integrating into society?
It's what they are doing when not shut in a classroom with children who are exactly the same.

Brasty my schools were more concerned about the kids not eating o er the weekend and the marks all over them and this was back in the 80's when really nobody gave a shit tbh. I would say 90% of my education came from my grandparents who thank goodness could explain things well and reading, I read a lot but the school did little to contribute towards my piss poor GCSEs. Luckily I sorted myself out at college but I never went to lessons even then, just learnt to revise properly and same at uni

Integrating with society? Do you really think being at school does that? Or you spend your day with children all the same age as you - when, for the rest of your life, would you spend most of your time with people all born within a year of you?

If you are home edding and not stepping outside your front door then maybe that is an issue but in my case my daughter gets lots of integration with all manner of people.

I am not conspiring to government conspiracy but the constant drip drip drip of school being the right thing to do, that people should be concerned about children who are home ed, really gets on my nerves - there are plenty of children who go to school who have awful home lives, who aren't learning, who are being bullied, who are not happy. All the monitoring in the world has not changed those situations.

I am not actually anti school but I am pro choice. (I also feel for teachers who can't actually teach anymore but that is for another time)

FoxesOnSocks

I personally think there are 3 kinds of home educators.

1. The kind that home educate, because they want to provide an alternate method of education for their children, whether that be because of their personal philosophy of education, or a failure within a school system. And they take that responsibility very seriously. They may have a myriad of approaches, but their underlying desire is to educate their kids in one form or another.

1. Those who are either waiting for a school place, or whose children are unfortunately too poorly to go to school.

1. Those who are using home education as a rouse to either truant, or escape responsibility.

The third is the real concern. But to be honest, a child who has been pulled from school and who falls into that category, is already known to the school and the LEA.

If the school fails in their responsibility to pass on concern to the LEA or to an educational welfare officer, then that is where the failure lies.

The system is broken, because people fail in their responsibility- not because the system is broken.

Lumping group one and two into group three, doesn't fix anything.

Personally I have always thought the person that is intending to home school should do a basic

English , maths and science test before its agreed
My spelling is awful really poor I could wip my children out of school and educated them they wouldn't learn very much 😁😳

Some home schoolers educate well, some do a terrible job

And some schools do well and others do a terrible job.

My SIL home-schooled my nephew and he has a Masters now. I wouldn't have the patience for it, but each to their own.

You don't need to be able to spell, the child does for this purpose ... Fuck have you seen some teachers spelling and grammar 😳

Can I ask another question?

If a HE parent wants their DC to be monitored, is it possible?

Can they get support/help from the LA? Or is it just a case of "Ok, seeya then"?

What if a parent isn't very academic themself but they've chosen HE, due to their DCs unhappiness at school? Out of desperation kind of thing?

To be honest I am not that worried about monitoring the standard of education, I am concerned about safeguarding issues. Yes I know for the majority of people who HE there are no safeguarding issues, but it's not the majority that worry me.
When working with vulnerable families one of the safety measures that is often put in place is to ensure the child attends a playgroup, nursery, etc, so they are seen on a regular basis by outsiders. Of course these safety measures sometimes fail, but to have no safety measures.

Worraliberty

Believe it or not, I too am a school governor

There isn't a way of keeping track currently. I suspect a census is perhaps the best way.

I think you will find that most home educators, don't want money to help close the gap, as with money comes strings, and most of us are very happy with our autonomy.

However, I think what would be very welcome by the community, is more schools opening their doors as exam centres.

However, because they are all so worried about their results and OFSTEAD reports, not all are willing to take that risk.

But I would be unable to check there work for mistakes Ect

I do think those that do certain subjects in secondary, miss out if they don't have someone to discuss the subject matter with. So in English literature, history and other subjects, part of the learning is discussing ideas and interpretations of the subject matter with others. You can't get that from books.

My dc went to school, most of them could read before nursery, ds could write sentences and compute three figure numbers besides at just 4. I never formally taught them anything. Ds learnt to spell watching crosswits and learned his numbers from countdown (he was obsessed with quiz shows) I think if a parent provides a rich environment with plenty of resources a 4 year old just soaks up knowledge so I can't see what's wrong with your friend's intentions tbh.

pleasemothermay1

But why stop there?

Surely parents are fundamentally ALL primarily responsible for their kids upbringing and education.

Why not make sure everyone can do that before they have kids? I mean how else will parents make sure home work is done correctly?

Worraliberty, in the town where I live there is a very active home schooling network ( there is a particular religious community who don't like their children in mainstream schools). It is quite organised, and actually the homeschooling organisation can get money and grants towards educational activities. For the older children studying for GCSe and A levels, they register for their exams through a local school, and sit the exams in the school. The school also helps provide specialist facilities such as science labs that you couldn't replicate at home. The 'payback' to the school is that these students actually tend to achieve very high grades and these are included with the school grades, bumping up their score for the league tables. I think homeschooling is an interesting approach but I do think that it needs to be done in the best interests of the child, not the parents.

Probably because you really do need to be taught maths from someone who knows what they are talking about.

I think it's quite a leap to assume that a parent may not know what they're talking about when it comes to maths.

I'm quite capable of teaching my child advanced levels of maths, chemistry, calculus, and physics, because of my own education, so I can't say I'm that worried about it. I will point out, however, that many of these home educating parents are most likely products of a state education, are they not? Which means they had that "school education" growing up. Surely if that school education is so good, those parents should "know what they're talking about when it comes to maths," right?

After all, if the parents that had a state education actually don't know what they're talking about when it comes to maths (or English or any othe subject covered by the National Curriculum), it's not really saying much for that state education, is it?

Lots of people don't do maths though at A level or even O level. So no they wouldn't necessarily know it. Also you have to understand things to a higher degree to explain it to someone else.

Some children learn to read and count from being exposed to a rich home environment, but many do not.

brasty

My dd is in school now and was last year. We spent part of the summer reading Lord Of the Flies as it was apt at the time. We discussed the story, characters etc, for comprehension, just as she would at school and just as we did with comprehension when H.ed.
You don't need a classroom and 29 other kids too, just a small family will do fine, or a smaller group of children.

If a HE parent wants their DC to be monitored, is it possible

Yes, ever La has a EHE officer whose job it is to assist and moniter suitability to those HE families who choose to use them.

Also the vast majority (in so far as you can tell) of people who HE do engage on some even with the EHE team often it's a yearly report

You'd have to learn then, if you can't read something then it's obviously spelt wrong, so if you can read you're half way there. If you are aware of the issue you'd check what you aren't sure about. If you can't read then you probably wouldn't HE. Although it would probably do an uneducated parent the world of good to go on the journey With their child.

As for asking to be monitored my neighbour asked for support, she had no intention of HE .. HE was thurst upon her and no nothing beyond one visit at the beginning of the year

YANBU op I get a bit twitchy about children not having anyone outside of the family having any involvement.

This is nonsense. Home ed children are out in the community, they see their GP, they go to activities and sports clubs and see friends just all children who attend school do. My child with autism was unable to socialise in school, he had no friends. Home educated; he has a big circle of friends whom he sees regularly at the activities and workshops he attends. He swims, climbs, does a martial art, plays football. All things he was unable to manage at school as he was barely verbal when there and constantly trying to escape.

It's not about obsessive mothers and their precious darlings, it's actually mostly unsuitable schools, poor educational settings, children with additional needs unable to be accommodated. I'm sure there's some home ed families who are doing it for the wrong reasons but I don't know any and I am immersed in our local home ed community and have been for five years.

Most of you don't actually have the first idea what you're talking about.

You get one other persons point of view, not a number of views in that situation. That is fine ironically for passing exams. But hearing a variety of views is what helps me to develop my own ideas.

Again, thanks for the replies. I am reading them all with interest (still feel bad I might have hijacked, so OP please tell me to but the fuck out )

I think you will find that most home educators, don't want money to help close the gap, as with money comes strings, and most of us are very happy with our autonomy.

But what do they consider 'strings'? Someone from the LA monitoring their progress? Trying to ascertain the abilities of those doing the home educating? Advising on the best way forward? Child protection issues possibly being raised?

Or something else?

It's probably a but more fuzzy than the three clean cut categories but yes I think your grouping is fair. However I know of one who thinks she's in 1 except she's doing a very poor job. The other woman I know home educating her three would be more vocal to me about this than I am. The latter is doing a decent job of actually education her children, my opinions of her teaching of religious beliefs aside.

Also if group 3 never get to school, then it can't be the fault of the school.

Claiming you can't lump one into two doesn't fix anything (though I'm not trying to fix anything, simply pointing out homeschool isn't always a good thing despite claims). It is simply a way to twist statistics, because you're choosing the higher performing group of HS children against all school educated children, a group that will contain those that truant and have parents who wish to escape responsibility.

These's no way the two can be compared because what control can you go by? So claims that homeschooled children 'do better' have no feasibility, just as claims that school educated children are 'better socialised' doesn't.