To think that people who worry about gender stereotyping their kids are a bit OTT

[ilovemonsters]

I've Nc'd so if I get flamed/biscuits the shame won't stick

So I know this is a hot topic and I might get slandered here but I've seen a lot of posts in threads where parents are worrying about gender stereotyping their kids and I've just seen a post on a Facebook page saying "my daughter loves playing with a scratty old hand me down doll at my parents house, is it appropriate for me to buy her a nice new doll or am I gender stereotyping her?"

I really want to post and say "oh FFS your kid likes dolls let her play with a damn doll!! Not every frigging toy has to be rainbow coloured and gender neutral for goodness sake!!!"

Or am I horrendously out of date and crushing my daughters' souls by just letting them play with whatever they like playing with whether it's a doll, a ball or a tea set?!

We've just got back from Germany and it was very obvious that the pink/blue thing hasn't happened there in the same way as in the UK. Toys were all in a big area, bright and colourful but not gender specific. Packaging showed girls and boys playing together with tool kits, kitchen sets etc. Same with clothes.
I'd be interested to see how that affects their take up of girls doing STEM, stay at home dads etc.
YANBU that some parents take the gender neutral parenting to excess but maybe it balances out the gender specific parenting and the rest of us are somewhere in the middle just doing our best to raise happy healthy children?

f1fan2015 and PacificDogwod
I definitely see what you are saying, to me the colour thing seem just harmeless, but true it is because this is what society tells us.

They sometimes get other colours (but TBF only if there is no pink/blue), and last week DS misplaced his cup and used a spare pink one with no issue.

I truly think I will be able to not let this expand to other things like academics (I have a scientific background myself so no way would I believe that boys are better at this than girls for ex), housework (tasks are very even at home), pay...
The only domain where it gets a bit tricky IMO is childcare, as I truly wanted to stop working to be a SAHM for a couple of years. DH told me several times that he would be happy to switch (we earn the same) or for both of us to work, it was really a personal choice. I can see how children can pick up on it though.

It's very complex. The ideal scenario in my view would be to have a much wider selection of clothes in ALL colours and no toys or clothes marketed specifically at either sex. However, we are working in a system where pink, dolls, the domestic sphere and being pretty and gentle are marketed as being feminine. In order to combat that some people seem to discourage the above in girls and encourage stereotypically masculine traits. Surely the message then is that being more like a boy is more desirable? I've seen it a lot as an adult with women disparaging so-called "chick flicks" or "chic-lit", but being proud of the fact they like action films, for example, as it proves they are more like "one of the lads" and not a "girly girl". What's inherently better about action films than say, a romantic comedy? Why is DH working for a wage seen as more important than me being a SAHM?

I'm not for a minute suggesting all women should get in the kitchen and all girls should play with dolls, I think we need to strive for a society where a) everyone is encouraged to be themselves and have every possible choice available to them and b) choices that are currently seen as stereotypically feminine are seen as being as valid, important and worthy of respect as those that are stereotypically masculine.

Joans It is! I find it interesting to notice how blatant gender marketing in children's clothing is only more avoidable if you have more money and time to spend. I'm a SAHM so have the time to shop around quite a bit to find clothes for my children that fits the "I like it" and "They like it" criteria. If I was time poor, I would just have to buy whatever I came across in the limited time available to actually go shopping for kids clothes. If I was restricting myself to just buying clothes from supermarkets or Primark, like a lot of the parents I know, I'd have a much harder time kitting them out in less "gendered" clothes. If I had Scandi clothes money, other than H&M it would be easy to get a wide range of choices.

If I want to get a doll's pram for less than £20 my options are pink or purple. Unless I go to John Lewis, and then I have the option to get a blue baby buggy instead. But again, JL isn't always thought of as somewhere to shop where I am (my SIL, for example, would never think of JL for toys even though it's often just as cheap as the places she shops, because she thinks it's posh).

That's turned into a bit of a ramble, sorry. Not sure if I've actually made any coherent points or not!

I have 3 dc who are all older teens. I have always done my best to not force any stereotype - gender or otherwise - on them. I see it as my role to expose them to all the wonderfulness of life and let them go their own way.

The families in our circle who have been most vociferous about gender issues throughout the last twenty years now have dc who are most closely aligned to gender stereotypes. My only conclusion is that this is because they grew up in homes where despite all the good words, mum was the sahp and dad was the only wage earner. It strikes me that children watch and learn way more than they listen and learn.

YANBU!!!

Just let them be kids, end of

BaggyCheeks as a side note, there are buggies for about £12 on amazon, pink, blue or other colours

My 5 year old would prefer a big ugly monster toy with slime all over it over a Barbie any day. Shall I go and buy him a Barbie because that's more acceptable for a boy? Bonkers.

I can't stand the current gender movement. It's unequal. If a girl wants to play with boys toys and a boy wants to play with girls toys everyone's all for it and saying gender doesn't matter etc. But if a girl is a very girly girl suddenly that's a gender stereotype, when both cases are just personal preference.

I don't see anything wrong with girls being girly or boys not being interested in girly things or vice versa. I'm really not for gender neutrality.
there IS a difference between the genders and sexes and what each prefers. There just is. I'm a 'girly' woman and I don't see there being anything wrong with prefers.

Not much stereotyping going on in our house despite the evils of colour coded cups 😂

Unfortunately it is not just you and your household that has an influence on your children. Your children will pick up from society the cues about what you have to act like and play with to be a girl or a boy. This is 2016 - why is research finding children believing in stereotypes so strongly that asked to draw a surgeon or a pilot or a firefighter, the majority drew men

Look at children's television, look at the books they read - until I had my DD I never realised just how stereotypical they are and I am sure it is just as hard for parents of boys who want to buck the stereotype.

yes, I am under massive, overwhelming pressure from everyone: family, school, books, tv, social media to buy a barbie for my son. why won't they let kids be kids?!!!

Ffion- "The families in our circle who have been most vociferous about gender issues throughout the last twenty years now have dc who are most closely aligned to gender stereotypes. My only conclusion is that this is because they grew up in homes where despite all the good words, mum was the sahp and dad was the only wage earner. It strikes me that children watch and learn way more than they listen and learn."

What is better about being a wage earner than a SAHM though? I'm not looking for a bun fight, just challenging the idea that choosing a traditionally female role (looking after the children and running the home) is lesser than a traditionally male role (doing work outside the home that receives a wage).

I am sure most people do not think choosing a traditionally female role is lesser than a traditionally male role if you are a women. Try doing it as a man. You only have to read on MN about fathers being called heroes when they 'babysit' their own children to realise that it is expected of women but is unusual and valued when it is a man doing it. Or the reaction to a stay at home parent being the father instead of the default mother which usually garners the opposite reaction?!

One of my nieces loves things like playdoh, drawing, cars, lego, reading but her granny insists on buying her 'girlie' things like disney princess, my little pony, dolls and dolls stuff, hairbrush, bobbles, clips. These things get thrown on a pile and not played with because she doesnt like them.

Whereas my other niece loves all things 'girlie'. Kids will like whatever they like.

The issue of gender stereo-typing leads

Sorry posted to soon. Gender stereo-typing of toys is only the tip of the iceberg though. It starts there and ends up with the awful portrayal of women in the media and wider society.

My bil is a sahd.

My nieces love pink (dsis hates pink, and always had-she was a total tomboy when we were growing up) unicorns, anything fluffy/pretty/sparkly and want to be "mummys and have babies" when they grow up.

My mum was like this 30 years ago. She made us think that girls who liked pink were somehow inferior and we weren't allowed Barbies and similar toys however much we wanted them. It just made me want pink things more to be honest.

f1fan - YY.

I've tried to raise mine as gender neutral as practically possible - without being hysterical about it - ie. I wouldn't stop my dd playing with dolls because it's 'stereotypical.' But as soon as they start preschool, and school - as soon as they watch TV, the messages are seeping in. My 2 boys and girl are fairly stereotypical.

Anyone who doesn't see the problem? I would recommend Kat Banyard's book "the Equality Illusion" - a very easy read, but will probably make you angry.

This is such a straw man argument (talking about the OP, haven't read whole thread). I am part of the 'PC brigade' who thinks stereotyping is wrong and my children have many different toys. I don't know anyone who says girls shouldn't be allowed pink. But I know lots of people who say that all children should be offered lots of different toys and praised for lots of different reasons.

It makes me feel when I think how many Barbies my DD has. I hate it, because she's 8 now, and so into Disney princesses and being 'pretty'.

I do gently fight against it, and talk of kindness, friendship and being clever, working hard and so on - but already she thinks she not that clever (she is). She talks about being 'thin' already. She is thin, skinny even - but these messages are coming from all around her, not from me.

I feel I've failed her in some way - should I have fought it more? Probably not - as a pp said, she probably would just want the pink and barbies even more.

You need to prepare your kids to see and challenge the stereotypes they see around them. To say you should just let kids be kids and play with whatever they choose you are being a bit naive. Kids don't grow up in a vacuum, gender stereotyping is everywhere.

YY Empress. Sorry, I'm a tad emotional tonight, for various (unrelated) reasons.

My DS chose a present for one of his friends. He chose a pink unicorn. When I asked why he'd chosen that, he said "because it's pink and has long hair to brush and she's a girl"

Given that I challenge gender stereotyping as much as I can, I'd say it is alive, well and brainwashing the next generation. It's part of a much wider picture that ultimately ends with women being seen as weaker, in need of protection from the menz and suitable for very traditional roles (kitchen/baby etc) and also paints boys into a particular stereotype.

One of DD's friends was asked by his mum what DD might like for Christmas. He said 'Well she likes boy toys as well as girl toys'. So the mum compromised with a 'boy' toy for Christmas and a 'girl' toy for her birthday