To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

[Puzzledconfusedandbewildered]

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

My DH is Dutch - no school uniforms there when he was growing up and believe it or not there was no anarchy either

You can home school and there are plenty of awful school who have very loose uniforms of simply don't enforce it

Many schools just have polo tops and black trousers

And most jobs have strict dress codes even builders they have strict health and safety wear

I think the uniform actually allows kids to feel hard done by or persecuted and with that out of the way we can get down to the real issues of discipline and school work.

Totally hate the sad faces mother in the daily fail ranting that her kid has a strange hair cut and can't go to school so cut off her air time, have kid in school and address the proper and important issues of he's there to learn and he needs to behave

Yorkie: Good, but an increasing number of kids aren't taught those values at home. They are, instead, taught to 'question authority' before they have the capacity to understand the value of what they are questioning, or of the time wasted in doing so. There are of course many students who would thrive without uniform, but unfortunately rule can't be selectively applied like this. Change the culture so that teachers spend less time trying to convince students about the value of hard work, and as far as I am concerned uniform can be thrown out of the window. But we are so far from that it beggars belief in many schools.

We don't all have the choice to home school. That is total rubbish. Very few parents could teach a whole Secondary curriculum and even if the do possess the skills, they may have to go out to work themselves. Home Ed is for those who can afford to do it.

A girl who had terrible acne would speak up in lessons when she wasn't marched to take her make up off with cheap baby wipes beforehand.

Dickon that sticks in my mind from my schooldays. The girls who had money to spend and mums who were into makeup would come in with the "perfect with no makeup" faces that take about 20 quality products to perfect. The poorer girls who had acne would try to cover it with the cheap cakey stuff. They'd then be screamed at to get to the toilets and wash "the muck" off their face. Then they would have to do the walk of shame back into class in front of the sniggering cool girls with their spots even more vivid after being scrubbed at with cold water and loo roll.

The older I get the more fucking cruel I believe it was. Still not getting how that helped anyone's education.

please but most jobs don't have strict dress codes now.

I worked as a TA and could pretty much wear what I liked. Dh works in central London as a lawyer and no dress code just smart casual.

You couldn't turn up to a professional job in a pair of trainers, I think kids, especially in secondary school, should be taught that sometimes they have to follow rules and there are consequences if not, even if it seems trivial at the time.

Although I do understand about the white sock issue, again you wouldn't turn up to work in a black suit and white socks!

Plus like other posters have said, if they give an inch on the uniform they'll take a mile and if things are this bad on the first day imagine what they'd be like in a month.

poster Trifleorbust Tue 06-Sep-16 20:51:01
Yorkie: Good, but an increasing number of kids aren't taught those values at home. They are, instead, taught to 'question authority' before they have the capacity to understand the value of what they are questioning, or of the time wasted in doing so. There are of course many students who would thrive without uniform, but unfortunately rule can't be selectively applied like this. Change the culture so that teachers spend less time trying to convince students about the value of hard work, and as far as I am concerned uniform can be thrown out of the window. But we are so far from that it beggars belief in many schools.

this

Who even wears a blazer and tie nowadays? My DH has his own business, sells scientific technology worth thousands of pounds every day, in an open neck shirt, chinos and a cardigan. About twice a year, if he's seeing a really stuffy customer, he might put a suit on.

mothermayi It is increasingly the case that dress codes are relaxing - even in the City among the very highly paid. Because people are gradually coming to realise that substance is more important than style. The builders' analogy is a ridiculous one - yes, builders have to wear high viz jackets and hard hats, but have you seen what most of them wear alongside? Jeans, T-shirts, steel toe-capped boots. Lots of tattoos. Really, your comparison just makes me laugh.

By the way there are plenty of awful schools which have very strict uniform codes... Just as there are plenty of very good ones which don't.

Constant I'm Dutch too. No anarchy in my school either, nor in any of the ones where my mum spent many years teaching.

The point about a culture in which education is not valued is a valid one - but strict uniform does nothing at all to address that. Fixing it would require a root and branch reform of British culture and the deeply-lodged remnants of the class system. Social mobility in the UK is so very low - addressing that with a raft of policies on pay, housing, taxation and yes, education are all necessary to make the UK an equal country where everyone has opportunities. Putting kids in blazers and arguing about socks doesn't even paper over the cracks.

trifle can't argue with that. my point was just uniform but completely get your point. Its sad that some parents can't be arsed to instil the basics. General good manners wouldn't come amiss.

Phones is another big bear of mine they are told not to bring them in I don't know how many friends I have whose children are logged onto to Facebook virtually the whole school day I know my friends son education has suffered awfully from this he must spend on and off about half the lesson sneaking a look at his social media

Parents think they know better then fucking home school your child and let the people who trust The school to get on

Wonder how much time is spent trying to battle parents activity working against the school must be exhausting

Easy, though, isn't it? And Brits fall for it every time.

If clothing wasn't made into a battleground between staff and students, it might even be positive for discipline. Teacher time could be freed up for dealing with genuinely problematic behaviour.

In continental schools, clothing is a complete non issue. You could turn up in a skirt that showed your knickers, but you'd stand out like a sore thumb, because everyone else would be wearing jeans, and your bare legs would stick uncomfortably to your wooden chair all day.

I'm old enough not to have worn uniform at my bog standard primary. No one gave a monkeys what anyone else wore, no one ran riot. Our Bay City Rollers T shirts didn't prevent us from learning our times tables and our teachers had one less set of petty rules to waste time enforcing.

Phones on the other hand are a battle worth fighting. In DS's school if you're caught with your phone on, it's confiscated and taken to the admin office. A parent has to come in to collect it.

I generally think that school uniform is good and that kids should just wear it. Certainly white socks seem like a daft idea in school.

I think that black trainers should be fine at primary age, but I can see that in secondary proper shoes would be better.

I do remember that at my school a lot of kids were sent in in a black blazer instead of navy blue, because the boys' brigade wore black and the parents refused to buy two. I was kind of on the fence on that one. I did wonder if the school should just have switched to a black blazer in that case.

And in those schools you often get teachers with visible tattoos, bare arms on women teachers, men not wearing ties and jackets and so on. Strict uniform rules but scruffy staff undermines the school's authority.

I totally support sensible uniform policy, and support school rules being enforced. However, my 7 yo now has to wear a tie to school. A tie! When the majority of the population probably doesn't even wear one to work anymore. I am about that.

I thought it was petty when I was at school. I kept being told I'd understand the importance when I was older. 19 years on, I still think the level of pettiness is ridiculous. It adds nothing to your learning or achievement if your socks are a certain colour or your shoes are black brogues rather than black trainers or your hair is a certain style. Uniform is fine to a point but it gets silly when schools are sending people home because of their trouser style or throwing a wobbly because someone removed a blazer at the wrong time.

Teach kids how to think for themselves and they can dress appropriately. A dress code is different to a uniform, again, teach kids properly how to think and they will be able to make that decision themselves when they come to the workplace. I have never had to wear a uniform, only ever business casual. Google that, go for the smarter option on the first few days and see how the others dress. It really isn't rocket science.

And it is perfectly possible to reinfor your child's learning, support education and teachers without thinking that blind adherence to a set of arbitrary rules with no basis or grounds in pedagogy or 'research' is a good thing.

Most workplaces mentioned (tesco, firepeople, police people etc) have a uniform for a reason. Easy to spot members of the public. Health and safety etc. Telling a girl her skirt has to be knee length, or that leather 'school shoes' only are allowed as against the more practical, comfortable smart trainer option is bonkers and done purely to 'break doesn't resistance and remove all personal decision making. Personally the latter is a pretty important ability that I want to foster in my kids.

Bluebird I work for quite an "oldfashioned" company, and ties are now if not quite extinct then certainly on the endangered species list. Pretty much confined to formal meetings with clients and press conferences now. No one wears them in the office, and suits are on their way out too. You see managers in jeans quite often.

Why are "proper" shoes better? I don't think DS has owned a pair of "proper" shoes since he was at preschool!

God I can remember being 18 years old and standing at the bus stop in my school uniform every morning. I may as well have been holding a sign saying "Sleazy drivers, shout something pervy now".

Geenrally, you can generic uniform to cover most things, with the odd log item eg blazers.

But getting too strict with a uniform is counter-productive. Doesn't do anything other than piss parents off due to cost and time in getting and replacing stuff.

Neither does it really do much for instiling better behaviour. Most of the time, good behaviour in schools is down to the attitude of the staff, top down. My DS is in a secondary, that yes, has a uniform, but it's the other rules that really drive the behaviour and standards, and the children know it from day 1. EG, being properly equipped (pencil case complete with pens, pencils, etc, calculator, school planner, etc), having respect for each other, something modelled by staff, and so on.

My school from the age of 14 didn't have a uniform, and we didn't have any increase in poor behaviour or lack of decent O level results compared to other local schools. So I refuse to believe that uniform is essential, it doesn't seem to be necessary in other countries. Any quite a number of those countries have better overall results than this country.

I did, hoever, ignore one particular piece of uniform when my DCs were at primary. That was the one about the outdoor coat being a dark navy one. My DCs had to walk to and from school, and given that the time of year for requiring a coat is the time of year when it's dark outside, I insisted on a coat that had reflective strips on, for visibility and hopefully improved safety.