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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

804 replies

Puzzledconfusedandbewildered · 06/09/2016 16:49

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

OP posts:
merrymouse · 08/09/2016 18:38

Oops - however, why worry about uniform if you trust your pupils to be motivated to learn?

mathanxiety · 08/09/2016 18:41

utter tripe my husband is a nurse and has never meet a constant or surgeon wearing Nike air max what the hell are you talking about the only time informal shoes are worn When wearing scrubs clogs are often worn but not on the ward doing rounds in reguar clothing or in meetings and always a short sleeve shirt and smart trousers not jeans and not track suits

As I said, the only time I have ever seen a doctor wearing formal footwear (and a suit and tie) was when the surgeon who took out my gallbladder did his rounds at silly o'clock in the morning. He apologised for his unsuitable clothing and explained that he was heading to a very formal occasion later that morning, by plane.

Doctors should not wear ties in particular to see patients. They are rarely washed or dry cleaned and have been blamed for spreading bacteria. Jackets and street clothing such as trousers are also suspect, and shoes that may have trodden streets are a problem too, considering the amount of pee, vomit, sputum, dog poo, etc., that we wade through daily. They really should wear scrubs.

The UK has one of the highest rates of hospital acquired infection in Europe.

JudyCoolibar · 08/09/2016 18:42

Loud cheers here for Mrs DV's post. I couldn't agree more.

MadisonAvenue · 08/09/2016 18:53

OMFG, they sniffy about sock colour?

My son's secondary school were strict on sock colour - either black or grey.

Sixth form now have to wear business wear. A suit, shirt and tie for boys and smart trousers/skirt and a blouse for girls. Apparently to prepare them for when they leave....y' know when they become students and doss around the halls in pyjamas all day Wink

Nataleejah · 08/09/2016 18:55

There was a research done in the US a while ago, that doctors' ties are a 'favorite' source of bacteria. Therefore doctors should rethink wearing a tie when seeing patients.
Myself i never been seen by a doctor wearing formal clothing. In hospital they wore scrubs, at GPs they are smart-casual. Not tracksuits, but not suits+ties either. I never looked at shoes though.

LineyReborn · 08/09/2016 18:58

When my DS left his state school last year - thank fuck - they had started imposing such extreme uniform rules as they converted to an academy that it was pricing some parents out of their children attending.

We're talking coats, PE kit, games kit, every day wear, school trip wear, from head to toe.

Gottagetmoving · 08/09/2016 19:00

You can't have a successful school system if schools can set abitary and nonsensical rules

But not everybody agrees these rules are nonsensical.
It's a matter of opinion.

Nataleejah · 08/09/2016 19:06

I think fairly 'successful' uniform would be if it was the same for all schools (something like in the former USSR). The same kit, sold in every shop, at lower than regular clothing price. No logo, no shit. Just plain uniform.

mathanxiety · 08/09/2016 19:07

'The purpose of uniform is not to improve academic outcome, so your post is moot

  1. Not making lack of wardrobe a way of bullying poorer kids and kids competing on dress. 2)Clear expectation on dress, not wasting endless hours on arguing with students and parents on whether an outfit meets dress code or not. 3)Teaching kids to follow rules.Do you think it matters if military recruits don't have perfectly ironed creases and spotless boots? No! But it matters if they can't follow instructions absolutely when they are servicing a tank etc. Nearly every job has rules or protocals which must be followed. 4 Gives student a safe way of rebelling'

I had a few thoughts on all of that^^
Basically what JudyCoolibar said better than I could have.

I will add that the purpose of uniform and buzz cuts and all the rest of it in the armed services is to re-form individual human beings with the capacity for critical thought and functioning consciences into operatives who will kill when ordered to, and use their intelligence and communication skills for the purposes of following orders.

My dad once witnessed an Irish sergeant major going all apoplectic on a parade ground, for the benefit of a bunch of raw recruits. The worst thing he could think of to bellow at them was, "You're just a crowd of - [bulging eyes, blotchy face white and purple, little flecks of spit flying] - people"

Completely squelching every ounce of individuality out of teenagers hardly seems to me to be necessary for school life.

MrsDeVere · 08/09/2016 19:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

deliverdaniel · 08/09/2016 19:13

YABU

We live in the US. No uniforms here. Everyone learns just fine and discipline is no worse than in the UK. This kind of thing creates a hostile atmosphere between staff and pupils over something ridiculously petty. That can't be conducive to learning.

merrymouse · 08/09/2016 19:16

Again, I thought there were Charter Schools in the US that are obsessed with uniform and discipline - are there any studies to show the results?

Gottagetmoving · 08/09/2016 19:20

A child was sent home for having a small embellishment on otherwise black shoes.The embellishment would not cause her to miss any education or impact on her learning.Missing a day of school though? I would say that was pretty much the epitome of nonsensical

Only because the rule had not been adhered to.
The rule was clear and given in advance.
To those who agree with the rule, the nonsensical aspect was that rule not being followed.
The days missed education was the fault of the child's parents, not the Head teachers.
Again..it depends on your opinion. Yours is the rule is nonsensical. To others not following the rule is nonsensical.

LineyReborn · 08/09/2016 19:20

Oh and lots of academies are now having parents buy new ties every year.

Nataleejah · 08/09/2016 19:30

The rule was clear and given in advance.
My common sense is questioning why a thing like that is a rule first of all. The school staff has NOTHING ELSE TO DO?? Nothing else to worry about?
What about real issues, like bullying, or focusing on really academic stuff?

Why shoes/socks, shade of trousers are even an issue?

HelenaDove · 08/09/2016 19:31

A parent has tweeted that her son was sent home because his trousers had faded too much in the wash.

Bestthingever · 08/09/2016 19:50

It does annoy me that staff spend so much time on this. When ds1 had a serious issue at school involving a large gang of kids, I couldn't get anyone at school to return my calls. When he went into school with a pair of black combat trousers (I honestly thought they were ok) the head of year called me the same day.

LineyReborn · 08/09/2016 20:05

Why the hell should a school dictate the colour of the coat that child walks to school in, and if it isn't the correct colour - black with no logo or markings or piping at all - then they have to take it off whilst they queue outside the main doors in the rain?

Gottagetmoving · 08/09/2016 20:06

it does annoy me that staff spend so much time on this
How much time? Would they have to if people took notice?

What about real issues, like bullying, or focusing on really academic stuff
Part of this rule was to deal with bullying. They also deal with academic stuff. That doesn't stop because they are dealing with this issue.
You could argue why the parents cannot follow the rules. If you can buy the wrong stuff...you could just buy the right stuff.

BeALert · 08/09/2016 20:11

Again, I thought there were Charter Schools in the US that are obsessed with uniform and discipline - are there any studies to show the results?

The two charter schools local to me have precisely zero uniform or dress codes. They're fairly new so it's hard to tell how successful they are. They don't seem to have any more or fewer behaviour issues than the local public schools.

Perhaps if you could link to some more information about the charter schools you have in mind then people could answer your questions?

MrsDeVere · 08/09/2016 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CatchIt · 08/09/2016 20:14

Every year it's the same fucking drama and the same parents are surprised their kid has been sent home because they're not wearing the right uniform. It's not rocket science.

The whole point of uniform is that it's a leveller and it looks neat and tidy. Quite frankly I'm bored of these stories every September! Hmm

yougottheshining · 08/09/2016 20:22

Interestingly (or not, I guess) re USSR, Russian schools are non uniform and have been for around twenty years. Even a country with Putin in charge doesn't have school uniform.

JudyCoolibar · 08/09/2016 20:31

But not everybody agrees these rules are nonsensical
It's a matter of opinion.

Does anyone seriously contend that it makes any sort of sense to have rules whereby, if you've specified black trousers, the school will send home someone wearing the wrong shade of black? Or that shoes that otherwise precisely comply with uniform requirements are unacceptable if they have a tiny metal tag on them?

Effic · 08/09/2016 20:42

Sorry but I think I did responded to the 'issue'. The op was about children and parents choosing not to follow a school uniform rules. It wasn't about acadamisation, school leadership or the other issues alluding to in your post MrsDV?
Nor was I 'bleating' in support of school uniform.
IMO, teaching children that the way to deal with a rule you disagree with is to just flagrantly ignore it is not a great lesson? I don't agree with Greenbelt - I think it's a total waste of perfectly good land that could be put to good use building houses or being farmed. As I don't agree with the ridiculous rules around protecting grass and insects over the needs of people, should I just ignore it and build myself a house? And face no consequences for ignoring it?

The op didn't ask about whether uniform was a good thing or not, she asked if there is a rule for uniform in a school whether it was unreasonable or not to be expected to follow it. I don't think it is. That's all.