To think it's not hard to adhere to uniform rules

[Puzzledconfusedandbewildered]

Yet again in the fail a school has had protests from parents (and police presence) due to 50 students being turned away on day 1 for breaching the uniform rules

Aibu to think the rules are the rules and if you want your child to attend that school you adhere to them?

What's happened to this country we were the greatest nation ever, people used to get on ships and just set sail who knows where, explore and live great lives

No, you weren't. And the sailing off was generally to exploit and colonise other countries for profit so I wouldn't exactly be boasting about that!

To the posters who think not wearing insanely controlled uniforms will turn their children into "defiant devils", speak for your own! Mine are very well behaved despite wearing pink nikes to school, and wearing a hat doesn't seem to stop them being in the top 1% of the country when tested. Funny that.

Oh, and I wear trainers every day to my professional job. As do lots of other people. And no uniform either!

DD has been to a 2 uniformed primaries and one optional uniform primary. Clothes were no issue at the optional uniform primary, kids just wore what was comfortable and appropriate. At the uniform primaries there was a lot of bitching amongst the girls about not having the right bag /shoes /skirt , or slagging kids off who didn't get everything new at the start of each year. IMO uniform encourages that kind of crap.
DD now goes to one of those high schools where you have to wear your blazer at all times, she feels hot and sick and comes home soaking. How is that conducive to being able to learn and concentrate?

pleasemothermayI, frankly you have some cheek calling bullshit. You've never responded to posters who asked you what evidence you have of any problems in schools in Europe or outside the Bronx that you know of that don't have uniforms.

I agree with NickiFury - do we really think our children are so stupid that they need 12 years to learn to dress appropriately for a given situation? Do we think they are so much dinner than young people in countries where there is no uniform? I certainly don't. Instead of masking the way inequality and class distinctions fail our children, should we not work towards a society where working hard at school gets you somewhere? At present we have several generations who have learned that no matter what they do, they will not end up with better lives. Is it any wonder these people do not support schools? Tackle the root cause and deal with social and economic inequality. Focus on learning and behaviour in school, not on sock colour.

As for tying a tie - any idiot can learn that with a few YouTube tutorials. I would rather schools didn't waste their time on it.

I am a strong advocate for a strict, smart uniform.

But it has to be sensible. Optional jumpers depending on the weather, shoes that fit & are supportive & accommodations for disabilities/injuries/your stuff going missing/a grace period to get stuff sorted.

Ds's strict private school had a two year wearing in period when they introduced a different uniform.

That way yo get pride & respect not by making kids uncomfortable.

Hmm I wonder what your income level is. Fining will do nothing to help a child from an impoverished home.
myfavouritecolourispurple - I think you digress - We are talking about how to enforce a policy/school rule that is being ignored by many parents and pupils. Clearly the current methods aren't working at this school ...

amberlaba as far as I can understand this guy is new so the majority of pupils and parents at that school will have chosen to go there under quite different terms. He gave them six weeks' notice of the change in policy which for most people is one pay packet to buy the new stuff out of and then all the teachers pissed off on holiday as usual for the summer so no chance for consultation/discussion.
yougottheshining - well no - the uniform policy has not changed - it's just that this new head has chosen to enforce it and given 6 weeks notice. Therefore the only people who would have issues would be those not already conforming.

What is someone couldn't afford them and had to send child to school with what they were given 2nd hand?

Lessons learned don't get undone haven't lernt things like how to tie a tie Ect eill stand him I n good sted

You do know you can learn to tie a tie as an adult! It really isn't that hard. There are probably demonstrations on youtube for those who don't know anyone who can show them.

the head teacher said that the police were passing and stopped to see what was happening. They didn't 'require a police presence

I'm quite sure that police drive past groups of parents outside schools every day without feeling the need to stop and "see what was happening" ... so perhaps it's worth considering what was different this time?

I wore a tie at school. Never worn one since & wouldbt have a clue how to now.

I think there are times when it is okay to 'rebel' against a dress code. Just to be open, I do not support uniforms, but do follow the rules within reason. Our local secondary school, the one we will more than likely have to attend, requires kids to where blazers all day rain, shine, hot, cold etc. and cannot take them off until they are home. Now, on a cold day, this is fine, but the other day it was 27c. They were hot and sweaty. I grew up in a hot country and found this excessive and animals would not be treated as such (though good practice for the London underground). This is an example to push the rules to be sensible. Also, the teachers are not similarly dressed. the other issue is equality within the dress code. This same school allows the boys to buy off the shelf for trousers. The girls have to buy skirts from a special shop. Boys uniform - £50. girls uniform £100. What is that saying to our students? I will be one to push this issue. If the uniform is designed to bring parity, then let it be so, but also human and with the times.

^Funny how apperntly in the uk there is no choice of schools with out inform When people are told if you don't like the policey then move your child school
But in the same breath is seemly loads of people who know of local schools who don't have uniform that are top performers and the children are just doing swimmingly

I smell bullshit^

I don't think it's the same breath; many of the top performing schools people have alluded to are in the states. The only English one mentioned on this thread is Camden School for Girls which people can be aware of despite
A only having boys
B not living within its minute catchment area.

In most areas in England, most people don't have a choice of a non-uniform school. Do you, pleasemothermay? The only choice most people have is between a formal uniform and a more relaxed one. Also bear in mind, that not one parent who applied for this school knowing about the new stricter uniform, not one. The uniform was introduced after Y8 to Y11 were already in the and the Y7 had already been allocated their places.

I'm quite sure that police drive past groups of parents outside schools every day without feeling the need to stop and "see what was happening" ... so perhaps it's worth considering what was different this time?

It was after school start time and the head was barring entry to large numbers of pupils, is what was different.

*Funny how apperntly in the uk there is no choice of schools with out inform When people are told if you don't like the policey then move your child school
But in the same breath is seemly loads of people who know of local schools who don't have uniform that are top performers and the children are just doing swimmingly *

Nope, different people, not all of them in England. You do realise that every different name is a different person?

Also bear in mind, that not one parent who applied for this school knowing about the new stricter uniform, not one

Is that really how people interpret information these days?

They read the school prospectus and see the uniform code, and then judge for themselves whether it is enforced or not which is the decision factor in their decision making?

Surely it occurs to anyone with an ounce of common sense that if a rule is in place, even if it's not currently strictly enforced, it could be? It's not like they weren't given notice. Six weeks of the school holidays seems like plenty of time to adjust to the new reality.

Or, didn't they think it was going to be actually followed through? Risky strategy, gambling on someone making empty threats.

*deciding factor decision

If someone posted on here that they work in an office, not in a public facing role and their boss was insisting that everybody had to wear a polyester black jacket when it was 30 degrees and there was no air con, and you were starting to feel faint, who would think that was reasonable? Everyone works and learns better when they feel comfortable.

Not everyone in the UK has a choice of schools. My children can either go to the one 3 miles away, or the one 48 miles away. Not really a choice.

I don't think it's anything about children wanting to show individuality as claimed by some and that strict uniform stifles this they will that however strict the uniform is find a way to this

It's more about the adults in their life being instructed on rules that are to be followed by another adult and that their position holds authority and it's gets their back up then we hear things like rules are meant to be broken yes adults can judge those consequences

How can we have got to the stage where a headteacher is being confronted by parents in the playground in front of pupils what do they think they are teaching their children

My son works at a school - their staff also have a dress code and the head has sent some of them home for inappropriate clothing. Which seems fair. The uniform rules are set by the governors, in a bid to get our local rules to be a bit more sensible - allow supermarket variants of black trousers allow Blazers to be taken off in class etc. I became a parent governor, unfortunately I soon discovered there are 2 classes of governors - the inner circle of local dignatories and really old posh people who agree everything, and the staff and parent governors who are just required to make up the statutory places - with no say. Despite concerted efforts the uniform policy remained that only black trouser A supplied by shop X and skirt B by the same shop and their grey socks are acceptable. I believe in a uniform - clarks shoe xyz or abc in black, I think specifying whose grey socks is going too far, having said that it did mean everyone was exactly the same.... even down to the school bag and outer winter coat. The view of the inner circle was if they allowed any black skirt they would be differing styles etc. and the children would not look like they were in a homogeneous uniform - it was their view that children should not be able to express individuality other than through their work and achievements.... So in answer to do we want to turn out subservient clones - many schools do, check the governors policies for your school. It certainly did mean there was no time wasted on uniform arguements or interpretation, you had the right gear or you weren't allowed in. I still don't think though that the rot starts with M&S black school trousers!! Never got it changed and have now stood down as my kids left.

Why do people keep wittering on about they chose the school, they picked it knowing about uniform....most people get fuck all choice about what school they get into. It's not a matter of "oh this one doesn't have strict uniform, I'll pick that one, job done"
And anyone, I think most people with a brain selct schools on the basis of the education you'd expect them to get, not the relative chances of getting a new headteacher with a hard on for controlling girls shoes and boys hair!

NNChangeAgain, I only know what I have read on this thread but it is not entirely clear whether he was just enforcing what already existed or whether he introduced new aspects to it eg the black socks. Perhaps someone with local knowledge could enlighten us.

I am not sure what 'decision making' is available to parents in Margate - their nearest non-uniform secondary is probaby in Calais.

Puzzled - tried most of those shoes, but genuine thanks for looking!

Hush Puppies used to be a good bet before she grew out of child sizes and before the current set of orthotics, but these insoles are quite built up at the heel so her foot pops out.

Last year we had to resort to Hotter. She's not quite forgiven me yet.

I am not sure what 'decision making' is available to parents in Margate - their nearest non-uniform secondary is probaby in Calais.

In which case, the fact that the rules have changed or are being more rigorously enforced is irrelevant.
The DC's have no choice of school, so are subject to the rules that school chooses to apply.

Civil disobedience is one option , as is engaging with the democratic process and trying to influence change - the pupils could use the School Council process, parents could stand as Governors or Trustees, and put pressure on their local Councillors (if an LA school) or on their local MP if an Academy.

Contacting the national media is of course another option - although one I suspect is least likely to bring about change.