to not support the junior doctors?

[MenMust]

just that really. it seems to be about them wanting more pay rather than saving the NHS. am I wrong? feel free to educate me (rather than attacking me!) ....

I'd attend an evening or weekend appointment if I could book it.

No doubt some people would attend a weekend or evening appointment if they could- it's just that the majority wouldn't and don't.

Weekend ande vening appointments have been trialled in the past and reported a 'Did not attend' rate of 50-80%, which is jsut a terrific waste of resources

I would as well Nil - it has never been offered to me either. It seems a trifle convenient to assume there would be limited uptake. I am sure in many areas (the city of Londond/urban areas) it would be massively popular.

Junior doctors, teachers, railway workers and anyone else who strikes doesn't take the decision lightly. The government is yet again trying to break the unions by feeding false information through the media. The strikes are rarely about pay, more about working conditions, safety, hours and family time. Everyone should be allowed to strike if their company/bosses and reneging on promises, changing contracts and compromising safety. No worker wants to strike, lose wages and cause disruption but when all else fails and nobody will listen to the people who are actually doing the job, what else is there? I will support 99% of striking workers as if they are going it, they usually have a pretty damn good reason.

No doubt some people would attend a weekend or evening appointment if they could- it's just that the majority wouldn't and don't

Really? How odd. My DH is always rammed on a Saturday (and not just emergencies. His practices offer routine appointments too). He sometimes does a Sunday a month too if he's not doing out of hours. This is not just private patients but NHS and fully exempt. Must be different when it comes to teeth

Everyone should be allowed to strike if their company/bosses and reneging on promises, changing contracts and compromising safety.

Well - rightly or wrongly - that's not the law. Employees can only strike in contemplation or furtherance of a "trade dispute". There's a specific definition of this It must be wholly or mainly in relates to Ts&Cs, matters of discipline and unionisation.

Interestingly, employees can be dismissed after striking for 12 weeks if an employee has made genuine attempts to resolve the dispute.....obviously the strikes aren't going to be for a 12 week period, but if matters escalate, that's the government's nuclear option

Gobbo - my DH's Saturday clinic is also booked up weeks in advance. All his PP's are seen in the evenings too. Seems a bit fishy to me!

Sorry "employer" has made a genuine attempt

I'm now wondering where the bloody hell my DH actually is at the weekend

My trust (a mental health trust) used to offer evening and weekend morning clinics. It was an utter waste of money. I used to pick up extra shifts at the clinics on a weekend and it wasn't unusual for only 1 person to show up for their appointment. Such a waste of money that has thankfully now being stopped.

I feel as a nurse of 36 years I could never strike . I do this job because I love helping others. I get back much more than I give and I feel that it denigrates the profession by striking . I may only be a lowly nurse but we have been very poorly treated by successive governments yet have never and will never strike.

^ trust me, the new gen of nurses will strike. They are next on Hunt's list.

'Next on hunts list' I see this a lot in relation to nurses. We were already got at some time ago with regards to re banding and having to re apply for our jobs. Same as radiographers.
It's just that no one seemed to care as much and the unions were weaker.

Everyone is on hunts list I think. Personally I support them and wonder how many extra will go and work abroad or in the private sector after being shafted by hunt and the government.

Hospitals are busy, midwives are booked up BECAUSE of Hunt and his reforms. He's made the NHS an unattractive place to work and the govt are underfunding it across the board.

younggirl I'm surprised that your DH as a consultant, and presumably therefore fairly intelligent, doesn't have basic comprehension skills. The junior doctors aren't asking for more money, they are just asking to be paid the same money for the hours they are going to be asked to cover. It is essentially the government who want to carry out £700million worth of work, they just want to avoid having to pay for it.

Myredrose This is my concern with the BMA. While the nurses, radiographers, pharmacists, secretarial staff and others were being screwed to the ground it was, according to them, individual pay negotiations and each profession must negotiate alone. Now it is them being done down it has become a threat to the NHS and we should all back them. It will be interesting to see how long their spirit of co-operation lasts (cynically, I suspect it will be just as long as their dispute is active)

I support the junior doctors. However, selfishly, I am quite worried about what happens if I go into labour during one of the strikes. Very much hoping care will be covered.

Charliethebear - could you link to the bit in the contract which says that?

Junior doctors are getting a rise on their hourly rate, but Saturday hours will no longer be at a premium. So they will be paid less comparatively on Saturday but more on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday and Friday.

From NHS employers

Q1. What does the 2016 contract mean for the pay for doctors in training?

Overall average earnings are expected to remain the same and individual pay will be more predictable and less variable between placements. Doctors will be paid more accurately for actual work done, with an increase in basic pensionable pay, additional pay for additional rostered hours, enhanced rates for unsocial hours, allowances for weekend working, on-call availability supplements for those required to be on-call, pay for anticipated work done whilst on-call and (where appropriate) flexible pay premia.

Some doctors may require transitional pay protection to maintain their level of pay under the 2002 new deal arrangements (protected at the level of banding for their current post as it was on 31 October 2015 excluding band 3). These are likely to include those on working patterns which were unfairly advantaged under the new deal banding system (e.g. those receiving a band 1B supplement for a 42.5 hour week in which all hours of work fall between 9am-5.30pm Monday to Friday), as well as those doctors whose current basic salary is significantly out of line with their current level of training, perhaps as a result of switching training programmes or training less than full time. These examples represent an inherent unfairness in the new deal contract that the 2016 contract seeks to rectify going forward.

I support junior doctors. They mostly do an amazing job. I think the BMA are a dangerous, pathetic shambles and have mishandled this situation into the ground, and now everyone loses. The strike action they were proposing was ridiculous, and then withdrawing it (after planned care had already been cancelled for many patients)just makes misery for patients with no gains to the BMA. And I don't believe the nonsense of "oh NHS England told us that it was unsafe so we'be decided to cancel it for the good of the patients". Anyone who works for the NHS in any capacity knew that there would be no way it was safe. Including all BMA members.

Because this govt don't chronically underfund whole industries, demonise the workforce, destroy morale and then privatise, do they?
Oh, hang on.....
😡😞

And another thing is maternity. I'm due in December, while they're allegedly on strike again. Not safe, not fair for me either, but nothing I can bloody do about it while the BMA grandstand.

Goblino maybe it is different with teeth?! When I was a kid i spent every Saturday morning hanging out at my Mum's GP practice whilst she did Saturday surgery (being a one woman band operation), but this was a good 30 years ago and primary care has changed almost beyond recognition since then). For one, I would gladly take a weekend/ evening appointment if on offer, but where this has been trialled, the uptake is very poor and becomes a waste of resource.

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/29/almost-half-seven-day-trial-gp-surgeries-cut-hours-after-lack-of-demand

I'm sure we can all agree that in a system which is already notoriously underfunded, expanding to provide services That won't be taken up just doesn't make sense.

And I don't suppose your in Wales are you? I'd love to find a dentist open on a Saturday. Bur then again, maybe I haven't been looking hard enough

And another thing is maternity. I'm due in December, while they're allegedly on strike again. Not safe, not fair for me either, but nothing I can bloody do about it

There will still be midwives and consultants and anaesthetists.

You are very definitely BU. These are intelligent people who already put up with working hours that would exhaust even the most energetic amongst us, all while learning vast amounts of info & having to make judgment calls that people twice their age would balk at. If they think their new contracts are unreasonable I for one trust their judgment!

queenie
What we have to remember is that there is no longer any kind of reasonable consensus, either within the medical profession as a whole or within the junior doctors. Almost half of them would have accepted this new contract as it was. Instead of doing that, they are now being forced into a strike that is probably more excessive than anything imagined by those who did vote to reject this new contract. Add to that the fact that senior doctors are just as intelligent but have greater powers of judgement to see the whole picture, not to mention expertise to evaluate patient risk. They have no real reason to oppose this strike on personal grounds - their contracts are up next and it would be helpful for them to see junior doctors create even more of a stink. Yet even they are against a series of five day strikes.

So what it comes down to is: whose judgement are you trusting? An unknowable percentage within a slight majority of junior practitioners. Meanwhile, you're rejecting the majority view of senior practitioners, their regulatory body and probably over half of the junior doctors themselves.

YABVU

That's all really.