Obese people to be refused surgery

[ReallyReallyNearly]

Isn't this just another form of discrimination, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752
Argument seems to be on financial reason rather than health, do we stop nhs services for people who smoke, or those who drink too much etc. Where does one draw a line?!

YY Tara Bet there wont be a statistical link to back up that comment though........instead there will be more bumph about vanity sizing.

When someone sees a size 16 person in the street they might have once been a 24 or a 30 and lost lots of weight for all the onlooker knows.

ladies size 16 is usually obese in weight/height terms for anyone under 5'6)

"We must frequent very different clothes retailers!

Obese is a BMI, i.e. in weight/height terms, of 30-39. I am deffo under 5 foot 6, and used to be a size 16. At that point, I had a BMI of 27.6."

But don't you see that this is part of the problem? You are normalising a BMI of 27.6, when in fact it is substantially through the overweight range and only 2.4 points off of the obese range. You're splitting hairs! 27.6 is still well overweight. It isn't normal, it isn't healthy, it isn't a weight you should maintain.

No. I'm not normalising. I'm using words properly!

Has this turned into Bounty chat forums when I wasn't looking? Or RedditRantaboutotherpeople's health?

Obese is not an elevated, technical way to say "overweight". It means 30-39.

Calling people overweight when they're not and obese when they're overweight doesn't jump kick people into action.

Earlier on, you mentioned a facebook picture doing the rounds of "I wish I was at fat as the first time I thought I was fat". Actually, apparently a good way (for some, at least) to lose weight is to "eat like you're slim already and want to stay that way". I can see how it works- deals with the "I'm fat and there's no point not eating x. I'll just be hungry and fat" thoughts. I mention all this, because a huge part of the reason why I was overweight (not obese) was spending my adolescence convinced I was fat when I wasn't.

Teenagers are particularly prone to all-or-nothing thinking, aren't they?

Everyone knows that unhealthy body image can lead to anorexia, but it's less frequently acknowledged that it can have an effect in the other direction; instead of dieting, emotional over-eating and binging.

"SouthallGirl I hadnt even thought about that one - drug users getting reflexology, massages etc. Lots of support services and groups available to them too. Not that I think they shouldn't be helped but this being the case why are obese people discriminated against? If they're obese due to over-eating then food is their drug Id say. Still - I hope if it comes to pass that obese people no longer have full access to NHS then they're exempted from paying National Insurance contributions,"

MistressDeeCee To be brutally frank, the existence of DDUs is merely to dish out the methadone, check urine, a bit of counselling. The type of consultant that works in a DDU is the type that would find it difficult to get work elsewhere. DDUs do put their 'clients' on reduction programmes and some success is achieved, but it is short-lived because inevitably the dosage of methadone starts to creep up. This is because some 'drama' has occurred which the client cannot deal with without pharmaceutical support.

If the meth scrip is insufficient, the client will buy H on the streets - and it's back to Square 1 even more.

If obese people are exempted from paying NI, then there will be little ££ going into the coffers. It is the 9 to 5 workers who are sustaining this country in terms of contributions, and there are fewer of them than 20 yrs ago. The two main reasons why NHS is in crisis is: large non-EU immigrant intake who require medical attention but have not paid anything into the system and are not working, and old folk who need management in their own homes.

YY Tara. I went through exactly the same thing as a teen. People telling me i was big when i wasnt. I was 5 foot 3 and just under 9 stone. But with bigger breasts So i was seen as fat.

If you were told that you need an operation and your risk of serious complications was 50%, but there was a drug that could halve that risk, you would expect to be given that drug, wouldn't you?

That is exactly what is happening here. Except that instead of swallowing a pill, the answer lies in denying yourself those extra calories, climbing the stairs instead of getting the lift, walking at a pace instead of dawdling, getting out of breath and sweaty as you walk, perhaps even running if you can manage. That's the reality. Because by the time you've got to the point that you have to have surgery, or die, and an anaesthetist is telling you that you may very well not wake up or may well have long lasting complications, your chance to alter your risk factors is gone. And once you've had the surgery, all the medical teams can do is deal with complications as they arise.

Some people get lucky. Some people have all the risk factors and still sail through. Others get severe complications that last for the rest of their lives and even if they do then lose weight, the damage remains.

If people could just take a minute to think about why there is such a drive to reduce obesity, they might see that it has nothing to do with prejudice and discrimination and everything to do with the fact that it is quite literally killing people.

Tara i think there is something very sinister behind it. As i mentioned upthread someone in RL who felt the need to criticize my loose skin on my tummy is actually 5 stone heavier than me.

I cant help noticing the correlation here. A lot of the criticism is coming from people who are overweight themselves.

Why? Is there a faint subconcious hope there that we will be driven to comfort eating thus eliminating the competition. This is certainly the motivation of the woman i know in RL. She feels like shit so wants to try make me feel the same. id give her full marks for effort but shes as transparent as glass.

We still live in a regressive society where women are made to feel they should compete against each other.

I'd agree unless the obesity is not the person's fault eg. hypothyroidism.

I'd agree unless the obesity is not the person's fault eg. hypothyroidism.

While I understand the financial logic in this, I find it horrible. It's like saying someone is undeserving of medical care because they're overweight or smoke--that they're less than human. It's terrible.

While I understand the financial logic in this, I find it horrible
then how would you suggest the NHS decides how to allocate treatment given that it is not possible to treat everyone who needs treatment
what criteria do you think should be used?

I'm on the fence about this

"While I understand the financial logic in this, I find it horrible. It's like saying someone is undeserving of medical care because they're overweight or smoke--that they're less than human. It's terrible."

It really isn't saying that. It is saying that there is an unacceptably high risk and low likelihood of success in this patient due to a reversible cause. Therefore, it is sensible to ask the patient to reverse it before surgery.

Personally don't have any friends/family who are obese. Nowadays with so many options available it is easy to live healthily. Have absolutely no patience/sympathy for people who are obese/fat. Resent my taxes going to surgery for someone who was obese when it could go elsewhere.

Not surprised you don't have any overweight friends with that attitude preying.

If it was so easy than why do we have an obesity epidemic?

Sou. preying do you resent the money spent on my C-section when my bmi was nearly 40 at the start of that pregnancy. Incidentally my weight ballooned when I lost 3 close family members.
Or just the hernia surgery I had with a BMI of about 31.

@user1473106504

Careful you don't break it.

my attitude doesn't affect who I am friends with. it is just the way it is. tbh my mum could do with losing some weight but she is not obese. I am vvvvv fortunate in that I can eat what I like but I really enjoy healthy food and like to dance/walk and unfortunately do not have children yet (fertility issues)
so it's never been an issue. I guess I would sympathise more if I had a real life example but harsh as it sounds at the moment I just see someone who's is obese and think they're doing something wrong.

wow Highland that is a pretty high bmi. I guess reading your post I think maybe I'm a bit harsh but it's what I believe and I hope you and your baby are happy and healthy.

I can understand how you feel Re fertility issues. We had trouble conceiving our 1St and I used to hate see people smoking pushing their pram. I used to think it was so unfair that they chose to smoke around children and I couldn't have any help with IVF as issue with dh.
I was not overweight than.

Lost loads during unplanned pregnancy. It was just what I needed.

Pregnancy was the best of my 3 and the birth the best too.

that gives me the rage Highland, if you ever read about a woman going crazy at a smoking pregnant lady it could be me..... we're doing our 4th ivf in November.... I'm thinking of a career change into nutrition. my sister is vegan and I do think you can make healthy alternatives that can satisfy (ie date almond bites over truffles)

"Btw, if you ever have a doctor write the words 'pleasant' or 'very pleasant' on your notes or in a letter they are telling the reader that in their opinion you are fat. They use it as bit of a get-out.- This is so not true - I have had it written about me several times on a referral letter - I have a BMI of 21 and I exercise 5 times a week. My DS has just had it written about him and he is verging on the underweight....pleasant is just a word the doctor uses to sound less direct."

I second that. My DC was described as "pleasant" in a consultant's letter and she is a slim child, besides which the matter being discussed was completely unrelated to weight in any form. I also don't think it's true that "pleasant" means "fat".