Obese people to be refused surgery

[ReallyReallyNearly]

Isn't this just another form of discrimination, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752
Argument seems to be on financial reason rather than health, do we stop nhs services for people who smoke, or those who drink too much etc. Where does one draw a line?!

But what about people like me? Two years ago I was reasonably fit, maybe a little bit overweight, but healthy. I was involved in a RTA (non fault) and now have limited mobility due to the damage done to my ankle. I am now morbidly obese and unfit. If the NHS would have done what I asked at the time (prescribe stronger pain killers or consider a nerve block) things wouldn't have got this bad... But I can't stand for long periods so barely cook (so have a terrible diet of mainly sandwiches and super noodles) and obviously can't excercise...

Yes it is my choice what I put in my mouth, but to say I should be denied treatment because of my weight, when my weight gain is partly because I was denied the "correct" treatment in the first place just seems a little unfair

To make public transpirt work.... you need to first rebuild the entire road network... A bus is ferociously inefficient and time wasteful if you have to drive into a housing estate and drive out by the same road. Most housing estates and industrial estates are dead end roads.

I'm not really sure that most housing estates are dead end roads, and even if this were true, given how many buses are generally going straight back to the town centre after a circuit, it's a minor issue compared to the (in)frequency of many routes. Every 20 minutes is inadequate, but in many rural areas, residents with twice-a-day services would think they'd woken up in heaven if they had buses every 20 minutes!

Widespread demolition is really not necessary to improve services.

SoupDragon personally, I'd rather leave the bus stops in place and have short enough distances that I could carry it over. I'm, like, too young and glamorous for a shopping trolley, innit.

Handfinisher people like you will be glossed over. Most see fat & that = your own fault thats why medical conditions, issues such as yours - & my neighbour who has a trapped nerve in her leg after working for years and is now gaining weight steadily, don't count. Stopping to think and having some compassion for the myriad of ways in which people grow fat whether emotional eating, bad habits in childhood enforced by parents, injury etc? I don't think so. There's a growing number of people who want to find ever more ways to feel better than someone else, thats all.

Handfinisher that's why I said the solution was simple for most but not all; if a clinician feels there's genuinely nothing you could do to prevent your weight gain I'm sure you'll get treatment if it's medically safe to have it

Believe me I understand how immobility can affect things - with me it was my back, but I finally learned to get around it by moderating my diet to take account of the level of activity I could manage. Might this be worth considering, do you think?

I work in a field related to this issue, and IMO obesity is a surgery risk to the patient, but depending on the condition corrective surgery has the potential to re-enable a person to take part in activity that would otherwise be difficult or impossible for them, as pp have mentioned.

Health authorities and key stakeholders make decisions based on current budgets except when the law compels them to do otherwise. Who knows if the fat-shaming lobby will gather momentum? Short termism seems to be the order of the day and I don't see that part of it changing.

Btw, if you ever have a doctor write the words 'pleasant' or 'very pleasant' on your notes or in a letter they are telling the reader that in their opinion you are fat. They use it as bit of a get-out.

I work in a field related to this issue, and IMO obesity is a surgery risk to the patient, but depending on the condition corrective surgery has the potential to re-enable a person to take part in activity that would otherwise be difficult or impossible for them, as pp have mentioned.

Health authorities and key stakeholders make decisions based on current budgets except when the law compels them to do otherwise. Who knows if the fat-shaming lobby will gather momentum? Short termism seems to be the order of the day and I don't see that part of it changing.

Btw, if you ever have a doctor write the words 'pleasant' or 'very pleasant' on your notes or in a letter they are telling the reader that in their opinion you are fat. They use it as bit of a get-out.

Get a trolley

Or, if you spot a bargain secondhand one, cos new is fantastically expensive... get one of these (see pic)

Mines a non flashy, non foldable one. As soon as the man at the bike shop has sorted the brakes and the flat tyre, I am free ! Free to go to town (no buses here) AND shop for the first time in 12 years. (and yes I've tried bicycles with 2 wheels, but have a seemingly endless capacity to make them fall over, especially if carrying lots of stuff. I blame the scary element amoung Italian drivers who make me wobble with fear)

They are v. popular with the less mobile elderly in these parts. Most of whom live rurally and don't drive. You can go further on an adult trike than you can on foot with a trolley.

lougle the things you state as fact aren't. There certainly are NOT more obese members of society than non-obese. My statement that black african groups are over represented in the obese category is a known statistic for the UK, it doesn't really matter how many obese black people you personally know.

Not-so-astonishingly, as with everything else to do with health, genetics are responsible for more than half of the person to person variation. BME groups suffer higher rates of obesity due to genetic differences. So refusal of services would be racial discrimination all the way.

There are lots of surgeries and interventions that are know to be more or less effective across gender or racial lines...isn't it odd that no one is currently proposing that resources be rationed by gender or race?

The sooner we make weight a protected characteristic the better imo.

iPost That thing looks delicious. I have never seen one in the UK, but they look tremendously practical.

These days I have an ordinary bicycle, because I live somewhere flat, (not always the case) and I bet you'll be able to carry more on one of those than I can on mine. I have to make sure it still balances post-trip to Asda!

My mil is obese and the weight adds so many levels of complexity (and presumably cost) to the surgery. She choses to do nothing yet her recovery problematic and future surgeries doubtful. She is not happy yet does nothing.
Alternatively my friend is obese. She is active but essentially big. She was told to lose weight before they would be eligible for fertility support. The issue was with him but they targeted her. Awfully cruel and unfair. Except she did lose a lot of weight (through simple exercise and healthy eating- she works ft and had to really prioritise it) and then did get pregnant v quickly afterwards- perhaps a coincidence perhaps not.
Our bodies don't cope well with extra pressure, so whilst thre are many people who will have issues with Wright loss due to other medical positions actually mis obese people are just fat. They eat too much and love too little. We have a health time bomb and everyone is too scared to be honest about it.
We need a reality check on what a 'treat' is and what a normal daily active lifestyle should be..
And yes same does go for smoking and drinking related illness. All lifestyle options.
And yes that is different to falling off a bike or sports injury.

Tara C - tricycles are available in the UK. In my part of West London there are several (as well as a penny farthing and a few of the reclining-flat-and-cycling types).

The trouble is they won't go easily into a bike shed (never if there is another bike) and in my area few have garages or easy side access to gardens, so there is nowhere to keep a trike. I'd have one in a trice if I had anywhere to keep it!

iPost That thing looks delicious. I have never seen one in the UK, but they look tremendously practical

Isn't she beautiful

I fell in love with them a few years ago, but the price tag was too steep. As soon as I found mine gong secondhand at very reasonable price I basically leapt on it and threatened to beat off all other potential buyers.

Galsos

They do folding ones now, to get past the "chunky" issue. But given that I can't even fold my clothes horse without injuring my fingers, I'll be sticking to my traditional "takes up a lot of space" version.

I am going to buy a big water proof poncho and be FREEEEEEEE !

Icebeing why not just be openly racist instead of trying to couch it in bullshit science?

Never mind stats - look around you in real life. There are as many fat white people as there are black people, being that we're a minority here then its more noticeable with white people.

Not that I think anyone should be splitting hairs via race - thats already done far too much with gender. Any medical service would laugh you out of the door with your statements...you really want people to believe the majority of black people you see are fat?

Whats your point, did you want this thread to turn into "lets stop treating the blacks, taking advantage of our NHS make 'em pay ...yadda yadda"

You've said it more than once but Im glad to see not many are taking your nonsense on board. Stop staring at and obsessing over black people then you might not have such warped views no doubt shaped by some bitter shit or other.

If someone's fat then they're fat, thats the issue not what race they are - albeit not an issue for me Im not medically qualified to know speficially why some people are fat and Im not about to pretend I am

If you ever land on your ass I hope you get treated by a black doctor who will likely be whippet thin but you'll still view him or her through your fat coloured glasses

" hate the fact the government punishes obese people yet still won't put out a blanket ban on junk food advertising. Sugar tax and tax on convenience foods which are the route cause of obesity."

There has been a ban on cigarette advertising for years. People still smoke.

The NHS, as people have already commented on, is not a bottomless pit of taxpayers money, particularly as taxpayers are now funding more to treat people who don't contribute at all, for one reason or another.

I post as an ex smoker and cancer patient. I would not expect further treatment if I still smoked, or was obese.
Patients have to help themselves to give the medics and other potential patients a chance for treatment also.

BME groups suffer higher rates of obesity due to genetic differences.

Wait, what?

You know there's no objective reality to 'race', right? Scientifically speaking? It's purely a social construct.

europe.newsweek.com/there-no-such-thing-race-283123?rm=eu

"HandFinisher
But I can't stand for long periods so barely cook (so have a terrible diet of mainly sandwiches and super noodles) and obviously can't excercise... "

They don't necessarily go hand in hand. Why can't you buy a bag of salad leaves and some cucumber and tomatoes? Then you'd be able to have a healthy salad just as quickly as you can make a salad or super noodles. The answers aren't always easy but if you know that you are eating a poor diet and you are becoming obese, you need to adjust your diet, because obesity is going to make your ankle even worse. You can't just throw your arms up in the air and say 'what do you expect?' to the NHS.

In that case, those who do extreme sports should also be prohibited from surgery as well as drug addicted people. In fact, the latter are offered reflexology and body massage.

Some people become obese because they contract diabetes (not from being overweight necessarily). And if the diabetes does not respond to oral medicine, then it's insulin - and that will make you gain a lot of weight.

If you're a smoker and need non-urgent surgery you are expected to lose weight. The less anaesthetic a body requires, the better your blood gases. When you wake up directly from a operation you feel as if there's a weight sitting on your chest, and it can be difficult to take a breath, worse for a smoker. It is for this reason also that smokers are asked to reduce their habit before an op, and heavy people too.

For those who do not hv the time or inclination, it seems that short burst of high-intensity exercise in the home is the way to go. Apparently just 1 hr a week can help reduce weight. So all that slogging on the walk-machines in the gym and other contraptions are inferior to high-intensity exercise.

For those who cannot do that, there is one movement that helps with lowering blood pressure and keeping arteries supple. Squeezing strongly & releasing both hands for a few minutes twice a day.

SouthallGirl I hadnt even thought about that one - drug users getting reflexology, massages etc. Lots of support services and groups available to them too. Not that I think they shouldn't be helped but this being the case why are obese people discriminated against? If they're obese due to over-eating then food is their drug Id say

Still - I hope if it comes to pass that obese people no longer have full access to NHS then they're exempted from paying National Insurance contributions

People need to be less defensive and more pro active- what can I do to help myself
The reality is most obese people
1- don't even think they're fat just 'real' (ie ladies size 16 is usually obese in weight/height terms for anyone under 5'6) and 2- have no health based reason for their size

Several good morbidly obese acquaintances have recently lost 5st+ in a year having started off with slimming world and some gentle exercise- none of them now can believe how much they used to eat (ie wrong food and sugar laden rather than volume) and how no exercise at all was in their daily life eg always driving never walking slobber on sofa in evening etc

Btw, if you ever have a doctor write the words 'pleasant' or 'very pleasant' on your notes or in a letter they are telling the reader that in their opinion you are fat. They use it as bit of a get-out.
This is so not true - I have had it written about me several times on a referral letter - I have a BMI of 21 and I exercise 5 times a week. My DS has just had it written about him and he is verging on the underweight....pleasant is just a word the doctor uses to sound less direct.

NewBalls there is an MNer who has posted a pic on her of herself in a size 16 bikini and she is nowhere near obese. Nor am i at a 14 and im 5 foot 5.

What bollocks. Its comments like these that help to trigger eating disorders. I said HELP TO TRIGGER NOT CAUSE.

just to pre empt the tirade

"IceBeing
lougle the things you state as fact aren't. There certainly are NOT more obese members of society than non-obese."

No, you're right. If we're being strict in definitions, then 61.7% of adults are overweight or obese with 25.6% of adults being obese. Now of course, those definitions don't tell us how many overweight people just scrape into that category and are very close to obese, or just tip over into overweight from healthy, etc. But 2/3 of the adult population are carrying too much weight.

ladies size 16 is usually obese in weight/height terms for anyone under 5'6)

We must frequent very different clothes retailers!

Obese is a BMI, i.e. in weight/height terms, of 30-39. I am deffo under 5 foot 6, and used to be a size 16. At that point, I had a BMI of 27.6.