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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think all buy to let people are just in it to get someone else to work to pay off their mortgage?

683 replies

madhurjazz · 03/09/2016 07:13

I wish people would say it as it is. Buy to let in my mind is just about getting someone else that can't afford a deposit / without a stable job to do all the hard work to pay off the mortgage of someone else. It does feel like a massive step backwards in equality.

Very few actually want to rent, the vast majority are stuck doing so as speculation keeps pushing ownership out of reach.

OP posts:
yougottheshining · 03/09/2016 12:28

A healthy property market does not have home ownership at its lowest level since the 1970s. Still, those 30% of households renting probably just don't work as hard as you. Yes, all of them.

Lweji · 03/09/2016 12:28

And probably by the rest of us as well at least at some point, given that more than one in six tenants are on housing benefit.

Blame the councils, then, that are not building and keeping affordable housing. Or council tenants that could afford to rent or buy but stay in their low rent homes.

It's not the landlords that are the problem.

yougottheshining · 03/09/2016 12:31

Yes, the people taking £10 billion a year in public money in order to build up their private property empires are not the problem. And they all work really really hard.

EssentialHummus · 03/09/2016 12:31

So?

I have a BTL, DH has a BTL. I do it to make money. He does it because it didn't make sense to sell a rapidly appreciating asset when he moved in with me (i.e. to make money).

I have a day job. I do it to make money, not out of an all-consuming love of corporate law. Them's the breaks. I bought my property by working hard and smart to afford it, so that now I have a bit more money coming in. I'm not the fvcking Duke of Devonshire.

If you don't like it, vote for someone who'll make second-home ownership prohibitive or undesirable. Whingeing at individuals or groups who see an opportunity and exploit it seems to me to be a grown-up version of "But it's not faaiiiiiiir....!"

HormonalHeap · 03/09/2016 12:33

They're not in it for charity that's for sure!

Dogcatred · 03/09/2016 12:33

Buy to let loans are mostly interest only so in fact none of the rent pays off the capital. Best to get the basic facts right.

yougottheshining · 03/09/2016 12:35

They probably rescue baby kittens in their spare time too. Not that they've got a lot of spare time, what with all their hard work and all. Not like tenants. They don't work hard. Shifty.

foodiefil · 03/09/2016 12:37

They aren't just 'paying their mortgage off' they're paying for somewhere to live and for someone else to be responsible for major costs.

RunningLulu · 03/09/2016 12:38

Yes, OP. I buy to let because I want to make a bit of money. All landlords do. What's your point?

Lweji · 03/09/2016 12:43

Also, considering how the pension schemes are having problems, BTL is an investment like for a pension.

Mine is repayment, so, we'll have somewhere to live on, or a decent pension.

yougottheshining · 03/09/2016 12:44

Nice to see a bit of honesty at last. Mostly these threads are full of people saying 'I don't want to be a landlord and I only rent out my spare house that accidentally fell into my purse to single mothers with no legs who are blind refugees and I would never charge market rent because I love everyone and want to share that'.

Now, which of you are going to admit to being owners of the one in three private lets that are substandard? By the law of averages, there must be a fair few on this thread.

plimsolls · 03/09/2016 12:45

I'm a landlord. Like PPs I bought my first flat with money I earned etc etc. This was before interest rates were low but when it was possible/easy to get a 95% mortgage. Fast forward ten years or so and I've moved in with a partner. I didn't want to sell my flat for lots of reasons and I don't think I should have to. I rent it out for the cost of my mortgage + insurance + agents fees which makes it v good value for money. Actually with tax I'll not sure I'll break even (haven't got to the first tax year yet so not sure how it works). I'm a very nice and reasonable landlord even though my tenants are difficult and the flat is lovely. I don't see the problem.

Tuktuktaker · 03/09/2016 12:45

*Blame the councils, then, that are not building and keeping affordable housing. Or council tenants that could afford to rent or buy but stay in their low rent homes.

It's not the landlords that are the problem.*

Exactly.

purpleleotard · 03/09/2016 12:47

Perhaps one of the miss conceptions is that a BTL is only occupied by a family.
There are thousands of university students moving away to study who will be living in HMOs. These students do not want to buy a property in their chosen university area, just to live in a reasonable property for 2 to 3 years.
Also there young professionals those who have just qualified, moving around the country for their first employment.
These are HMOs controlled by exactly the same laws (hundreds of laws) as a family home.

RichardBucket · 03/09/2016 12:48

So Lewji, EssentialHummus and Tuktuktaker not only want someone else to pay their mortgages, but they also don't want to take responsibility for their decisions. The government is responsible for their actions!

maddening · 03/09/2016 12:49

Farmers own land to cultivate crops or livestock to make money - food is essential

Shop keepers own shops and sell food and drink at a profit to make money - food is essential

Doctors work for money- doctors are essential

The list is endless but many people invest time, effort and money in order to make money to live and for their futures.

Do you work for free op? Where does your money come from?

Oysterbabe · 03/09/2016 12:50

Now, which of you are going to admit to being owners of the one in three private lets that are substandard? By the law of averages, there must be a fair few on this thread.

Not necessarily. I think the Mumsnet demographic is more likely to be people who have one or two BTL and not a huge property portfolio. The slum landlord I had as a student owned half the street and every house was a dump.

Quickqu · 03/09/2016 12:52

Can't be bothered to read the full thread as so many chippy and angry and illogical posts.

As a pp said, it's capitalism. If you don't like it, move to Russia.

EssentialHummus · 03/09/2016 12:52

richard - I take responsibility for my decision to buy a BTL. It was a decision made after looking at lots of investment options. Government policies, in this case, are either neutral or beneficial to me.

If you (or the OP, or your mum, whoever) don't like it, lobby/vote for a different system. This one works for me.

Lweji · 03/09/2016 12:53

What do you mean at last?

The problem with the thread is how it attempts to make BTL landlords responsible for the housing crisis.

It seems that some people would like landlords to lower their rents below the rest of sell for the goodness of their hearts.
It won't happen.
Most of us aren't speculating or making fortunes. But just adding some extra income or preparing for an uncertain future.

Ps- I've paid for repairs as soon as the tenants report a problem, including a new washing machine. Shit landlord that I am. And I'll have to sort out any issues with the roof, pipes, electricity, rendering, which can be expensive, but the tenants won't have to worry about it or save for it.

Shakey15000 · 03/09/2016 12:53

Arghh. The generalisation is infuriating Angry

RunningLulu · 03/09/2016 12:56

I buy to let using a well known and respected estate agent who makes damn sure my property isn't sub-standard, as I don't have the time to visit it regularly. They'll send photos and quotes for work etc.

Lweji · 03/09/2016 13:01

Btw, my substandard let had a one year old kitchen, with new appliances and boiler, 3 year old double glazed windows, new efficient radiators with individual thermostats, new floors, fully furnished.
Lots of work and lots of money put on it.
I know I'm a bastard for using my loved home as an investment too.

Shakey15000 · 03/09/2016 13:03

Exactly Lweji. We sort issues the next day, update things when needed and haven't raised the rent since they've been there. All when not lowering the mortgage whatsoever.

So am I a responsible landlord who provides a house, in this position because we clawed our way up to buy, worked hard and boxed clever? No, I'm a greedy bitch who actively strives to make money out of the misery of others.

ShtoppenDerFloppen · 03/09/2016 13:07

WRT "not all renters do so because they can't afford a mortgage". Absolutely!

My ILs are getting ready to sell their house as we speak. It is a lovely home, has been paid off for more than 30 years. They are comfortable financially but at 82 and 83, maintaining a 4 bedroom house and its property is becoming arduous. We help when we can, but live a little more than 200km away, so can't help as often as we would like.

They are selling the house and moving into a lovely, fully serviced 2 bedroom flat. Maintenance will no longer be an issue, and they can live out their golden years without the stress. Frankly, if their parents are any benchmark, they still have a lot of years ahead of them to enjoy.