to think all buy to let people are just in it to get someone else to work to pay off their mortgage?

[madhurjazz]

I wish people would say it as it is. Buy to let in my mind is just about getting someone else that can't afford a deposit / without a stable job to do all the hard work to pay off the mortgage of someone else. It does feel like a massive step backwards in equality.

Very few actually want to rent, the vast majority are stuck doing so as speculation keeps pushing ownership out of reach.

Can never get my head around the bitching and attitude of -it's not fair! Life is not fair on every level, no one owes anybody anything and to whine about landlords profiting from the rental market is shortsighted and ridiculous.

We live on an economic planet???

Should people who have mortgages let those that don't live in their properties for free?

Everyone needs somewhere to live, some people buy some people rent, the equality card is a red herring. Your personal economy is the contributing factor to the choices you can make for you and your family. Stop hating.

Blaming landlords for the fact rents are high and property prices are high in the few area where there are jobs is a bit like the London rioters who burned down small high street stores because they say those traders as "rich" (even though the traders often make only about £10k to £20k a year from their corner shop).

I see mutterings in the press about removing the new 3% extra stamp duty on buy to let properties by the way (a very good plan in my view) but those who are anti land lord might want to concentrate on lobbying their MP to ensure that change to the norm does not occur.

I have a BTL because if I didn't I'd be trying to live on the state pension. My BTL enables me to have a roof over my head, which I can heat in the winter and gives me some spare money so I don't have the worry of how I'm going to live into my old age - I'm nearly 70 now and don't have the energy to continue working at my age. It doesn't keep me in untold wealth.

What exactly do you think would happen OP if all the 'evil' BTL landlords disappeared overnight. Do you really think that all the people who currently cannot afford to buy their own homes would somehow miraculously manage to scrape together a deposit and get a mortgage? Of course they wouldn't. So where would they be living? With their parents? On the street? In council housing? Well that's not going to work, is it?

Of course BTL is an investment, many people invest money in various ways, BTL is just one way.

Not all the rent I take goes into my pocket. The house needs to be maintained, repairs made, LL insurance has to be paid and I have to pay tax on my earnings.

The current tenants in my house could easily afford to buy their own home but at the moment it doesn't suit them to because they might not be staying in this country long term. They are neither poor not exploited by me. They earn a hell of a lot more than I do.

Might also add that they are the third tenants I've had. The first couple sub let and left the house needing a lot of work to get it back to a rentable quality and the second couple didn't pay any rent for the six months it took to evict them through the courts. They left the house in an even worse state than the first couple.

These BTL bashing posts pop up every so often, with their sweeping statements and naivety but nobody on any of them has yet come up with a sensible system to replace private LLs. But I be interested to know when someone does.

The vast majority of people who rent don't really want to but are often in my humble opinion trapped in a cycle of paying high rent (far more than a mortgage in some situations*) and not being able to save to buy or even for a deposit.

• rent for my grotty one bed was £800 a month, mortgage on our two bed flat £437 a month.

You can't however blame people for buying to let, I'd do the same if I had a few spare hundred thousand or so (which I won't), buy some property to rent as an investment, especially with interest rates being so low for savers.

Your frustration (albeit understandable is possibly slightly misplaced).

It's called business. Nothing wrong with making money so long it's legal and above board.

YABU. I've owned my house for 12 years, I've lived in it for 6 months. I live about 200 miles away now and my employer provides my accommodation; should I let my house stand empty? My current tenants have been there for about 8 years, I fix things as soon as they ask, my mortgage hasn't gone up so their rent hasn't gone up.

Not everybody who tries to invest for their future does it by screwing over others.

YABU
I am a letting agent, and while many landlords are getting their mortgage paid, many are in interest only mortgages so only paying off interest, many are renting out inherited properties, many are renting because they struggled to sell.

Many tenants that I see are renting while they save a deposit, many have sold their house and need somewhere for 6 months or so while they wait on a new build being finished.
Many are rather dodgy and run illegal business/don't declare the right income to get a mortgage.
Many are renting due to marital breakups.
Most are renting because their chosen career means that they may have to relocate at short notice so don't want to be tied down to a mortgage.

so while there are many reasons for someone to rent out a property there are also many reasons for someone choosing to rent rather than buy.
None of my landlords accept DSS tenants so none of them are profiting from taxpayers etc.
In addition to all of the above the profit margins on a rental property aren't high due to agency fees, marketing fees, repair bills and cost the various legislative works that need to be done to a property.

My daughter knows someone who has moved out of the house share and lives in his van. Apparently there are more and more young people are doing this in order to save for a deposit.

As a landlord, we freshened up the decor between lets (12 months) and replaced items as required. We also attended to any urgent repairs either in person or got tradesmen in within 24 hours, no questions asked. We paid for the upgrading of the close - security entrance and repainting - and didn't charge the tenants a penny or increase the rent, which was competitive for the area. Nothing in the flat was more than 7 years old, some items of furniture were only 2 years old (we'd retrieved older items for family use).

The last lot of tenants sublet, damaged fittings, and failed to pay all their rent yet paid for installation of Sky, all in breach of the tenancy agreement and there's fuck all I can do about it

All landlords are evil, milking the vulnerable? Yeah right.

All landlords are pricing first time buyers out of the market though.

^^ All? How? I bought my house twenty six odd years ago interest rates were 16% as did my dh whose house we now rent out how on earth are we responsible for pricing first time buyers out of the market. And I must tell my grown dc that they are deluded in thinking they have both just bought their first homes in the SE as I'm sure they believe they are first time buyers (interest rates at around 3% so same repayments as a proportion of earning but don't let hard work and common sense affect t your delusions of unfairness).

No, all LL are not pricing first time buyers out of the market.

My BTL is a four bedroom house that used to be the family home I shared with my DCs. I bought it nearly 20 years ago as a cash purchase after my divorce. I got a BTL mortgage on it several years ago when I wanted to live somewhere smaller.

How exactly am I preventing a first time buyer buying a home.

I have a BTL, which used to be our first home. When we wanted something bigger, we changed the mortgage to a BTL rather than selling.

Yes, we did it with the pure intention of making money (in the long term).

We only did it because the rent covered the mortgage payments completely - so that effectively the house was taking care of itself until it was paid off.

Clearly some subscribe to the "all property is theft" view, but please don't forget there are "accidental landlords" too

I'm fortunate in being able to afford my new home via a legacy, but sales around here are through the floor and even with incredibly low mortgage rates houses just aren't shifting; therefore I may be forced to rent out my current place until things pick up, much as I'd rather not

While I completely understand there are worse positions to be in, does anyone seriously suggest I should allow someone to live there for free?

While I completely understand there are worse positions to be in, does anyone seriously suggest I should allow someone to live there for free?

YY I think that is exactly what is being suggested by some - that you share your "good fortune" and allow others who are less fortunate to benefit alongside you.

You could sell it for less. There are very few houses that genuinely can't be sold.

You could sell it for less. There are very few houses that genuinely can't be sold.

True - that's another way of sharing good fortune with others.

Yes sell it for less and be out of pocket so somebody that hasn't saved up or gone with out can have it cheap.

Just like every one does with cars ect...

I should perhaps have said it's only just going on the market ... the worry was about what may happen based on other properties round here (even the reasonably prices ones) rather than what already has

Certainly I'll consider reducing the price if it comes to that; in fact I told the EA I wanted a realistic valuation to get the place sold, not some pie in the sky figure - but I'd hope it would be understood that folk aren't going to give properties away??

So ban all BTLs then OP? Oh but if you can't afford to buy and there are no BTL properties where are you going to live? Duh. Your post oozes .

It's Buy-to-let as a concept which is the problem. Each accidental landlord means one less person or young family can but their home. It's widening the gap between the haves and the have nots.

LLs charge much more than their mortgages in London; figures show how rent is sky rocketing; whereas if you own a property payments go down and the value appreciates.

What an odd way to look at it!

We buy to let because it's the way we've chosen to invest in our future. Plus, I'm a nice landlady

Our rent is reasonable, we complete any work pretty much straight away, and I'm at the end of the phone if the tenants need me.

So, the main problem are the small time landlords not the big timers that make fortunes out of letting?

It probably started as an issue when interest rates were very low and prices went up. People released equity and put it into BTL. If anything, complain about them.

But most people are doing their best to secure their future and increase their income.

I'm very sure most people that complain about BTL would do the same if they could.

charley and others.... Lots of landlords do not charge more than their mortgage, in London or not. I am one in London who does not as explained in my PP.

There's some sweeping & misinformed generalisations on this thread.

Each accidental landlord means one less person or young family can but their home

Yes I get that, at least in that a BTL property isn't available for purchase. I'm also aware that rental prices in London are becoming insane (though not round here, where a 3 bed 1 bath averages around £7-800 pcm)

But as I said, what the heck is someone to do if stuck with a second home in a totally stale market? While I'd hope most are generous at least with friends and family, it would take a pretty unusual personality to subsidize folk they don't even know to the tune of tens of 1000s