to think all buy to let people are just in it to get someone else to work to pay off their mortgage?

[madhurjazz]

I wish people would say it as it is. Buy to let in my mind is just about getting someone else that can't afford a deposit / without a stable job to do all the hard work to pay off the mortgage of someone else. It does feel like a massive step backwards in equality.

Very few actually want to rent, the vast majority are stuck doing so as speculation keeps pushing ownership out of reach.

[Bestthingever]

Banana exactly. Why are there so many threads on MN bashing small time investors trying to make some money for their old age? Try complaining about all the corporate bustards like Apple with their sweetheart tax deals and exploitation of labour. Fwiw we are btl landlords. We went into it because we want to have some money for our old age because we certainly don't trust the state to look after us. We are good landlords. We made sure we brought the property up to a very good condition even though the estate agent said we could 'get away' without it. We respond promptly to any problems the tenants have. What is wrong with that?

[Trethew]

Rogueantimatter The government charges an extra 3% stamp duty on all property that is not your primary home

[thepenguinsrock]

I'm a buy to let landlord and for us it was about investing hubbys inheritance in a way that will benefit our kids in the future.
We purchased hubbys dad's house once he was too old to get a mortgage and had to go and rent. They didn't want to let the house go completely, it's way to small for our family so renting it was logical.
It's purely a buisness thing our tenants aren't taken advantage of the rent is set at the lower end of what we could charge for the property and they are happy. TBH the profit margin after all expenses and tax extra isn't much to talk about anyway!

[Oysterbabe]

We have a BTL as an investment for our future and that of our child. We're currently renting it to a lovely family who could certainly afford to buy if they wanted to. They don't want to as they just want somewhere for 2 years as they're moving on after that for various reasons. We live in an area with a big student population and they make up the majority of renters round here, they have neither the means nor desire to buy.
We're such evil bastards, making the best use of our money so we can have a less stressful retirement

[eyemonster12]

I have a flat that I bought to let for a few years. I inherited enough money to do it and I knew that in the next few years I would need to be local to my mother who will need caring for, and there is no one else in my family left to do it. House prices are going up at an unbelievable rate in the area and have been for decades, so I knew that I couldn't risk not being able to afford it closer to the time. I currently live (renting a room in a flat, so am very familiar with shitty landlords who are absolutely only in it for the money) and work in London. Obviously I wouldn't be able to buy anything in London, I cannot leave my job, and I cannot afford to commute into London every day.

I have been ripped off by landlords who don't give a shit about the tenants or the property. My last landlord was a good landlord, but charges almost £3k in rent for the flat I lived in, and rents the living room out as a bedroom in order to maximise that figure. He has three of these flats in one street.

I own a single one bed flat that I rent out to a Phd student. I look after that flat and I make sure that the tenant is happy.

Not every landlord is in it to pay off a mortgage with no inconvenience to themselves. I recognise that I'm extremely fortunate to have been able to get onto the property ladder in the South East when none of my friends (early 30ish, stable jobs) have been able to. If I could have guaranteed that I would be able to buy in a few years time, I would not be a landlord. If I could afford to buy a property within 30 miles of where I work, I would not be a landlord. Nor would I be spending a third of my salary on rent for a room.

The property market is shit, yes. But not everyone is out to shaft people.

[engineersthumb]

I don't think that we should be blaming individuals but I do think that there is a problem with the current system. If individuals were not permitted to rent property directly but only through a state managed housing scheme with controlled rents and secure tenure that it would be less attractive. The result would be lower house prices, better access to housing and a larger state owned sector. Of course implimenting this now would hurt many people including me as home owner. However I do think that we should gradually start moving I this Dr direction and to remove the investment aspect of housing as far as possible. In the end I think that wewould have a better society. You can't blame people for getting involved in BTL but we can decide as a society that it's not a good way to proceed.

[throwingpebbles]

I think there is some truth in this. I don't know what the solution is though

[VeryBitchyRestingFace]

I don't understand OP's (projected) rationale.

Why would anyone only buy a BTL so someone else could pay off their mortgage when this would necessitate the buyer living elsewhere and not getting the benefit of their asset for potentially 25 + years?

Yes, ultimately you might acquire a property whose mortgage has been entirely paid off by the tenants - assuming you live long enough. But in the meantime, you may have been living in a crummy bedsit/rental/cardboard box/chez les parents.

What's so great about that??

[lljkk]

If individuals were not permitted to rent property directly but only through a state managed housing scheme with controlled rents and secure tenure then it would be less attractive.

The state would also be sharing more of the risks.
Being a state funded enterprise it would be underfunded with the gross inefficiencies that come with being underfunded.
Waiting lists would be long so it would literally be harder to ever move house, people would get stuck in unsuitable properties for longer.
Flexibility about what property to take would be low.
There would be ways to cheat the system, to pay much lower rent than tenant can actually afford.
Eligibility & priority criteria would creep in about who got a property when (more paperwork).
Rental and management Costs would be higher (compared to private arrangements).
Quarrels would arise about who should pay to make sure a property was safe & suitable.
Scandals would arise about high costs & waiting lists to get repairs done: already suspect situation for council-owned buildings.
Someone would accidentally in one fell sweep leak all the background & credit checks for 2 million people.
Taxpayers would effectively be subsidising housing for deadbeat tenants, the tabloids would have a field day.

[GinAndTunic]

"do all the hard work to pay off the mortgage"

What hard work? They pay rent. What are you suggesting? That renters don't pay rent? What does it matter if they are paying off a mortgage or paying rent on a property that doesn't have a mortgage?

[yougottheshining]

Well even with all of that (none of which is necessarily going to happen) state housing that pays for itself in perpetuity has got to be better than the state handing over tax-payers' money to private landlords at the rate of £10 billion a year every year and rising. It's not just tenants who are paying off the mortgages - it's all of us. Landlords as a group cost us £10 billion a year. Quite a lot isn't it?

[yougottheshining]

Oh and as for the point about repairs, one third of private rented properties are classed as substandard. Not working out so great, this almighty supposed free market.

[Witchend]

My uncle bought to let. He was in the army and that way he had a house when he came out at 40. He wouldn't have had a chance of getting a mortgage at that point.
It meant they had to scrimp and save to get enough to cover the deposit and when the house was empty at times it was very difficult financially.

[Lweji]

Rents are not cheap either.
I am letting my previous home. We didn't sell at first because we might return to the area at some point.
I wouldn't want to pay in rent what I'm charging.

Anyway... it's not buy to let that's the problem. It's lack of housing.
Houses and rents are both expensive.

[yougottheshining]

It's ok lweji - just let the taxpayer pick up the tab for the extortionate rent you charge. After all, that's what that £10 billion is there for. Not for schools, the NHS etc.

[Lweji]

It's not extortionate.
It's market value (not updated in a while and probably loosing money, actually) and in line with the local authority scale.
It would have been silly to sell and then not been able to afford to buy there again.
Not after all the hard work we put on it to make it liveable again.

It's also a long term investment should my child want to live back there too, say, for Uni.

But, again, the problem is that more homes are not being built. As long as there is lack of housing both rents and house value will increase.

[mrsmugoo]

I don't know.

We own a 2 bed flat which we live in with baby & toddler. We're currently packed in like sardines bit working our arses off to be able to afford to buy a bigger family home whilst keeping the flat to rent out. We could afford to sell the flat and buy a house now but we've chosen to stay here until we can afford to not sell it. We want an income from the flat in our retirement as we (like a lot of people) won't be able to live off the pitiful pensions we'll have.

I don't see us as exploiting those who can't afford a mortgage to pay ours for us. It's an investment for our future paid for by our hard work.

[yougottheshining]

I always laugh when people talk about market value re private lets. It's not really a market price if that market is propped up by £10 billion a year is it? Just by way of comparison, the bill for JSA is less than half that.

[Sleepybeanbump]

Well yeah, just like if you work for someone else's company, you're working to help pay their salary.

Unless one independently wealthy, has no debt, and doesn't need to work, then a lot of one's activities are going to help feather other people's nests.

Unless you propose Communism as your way of achieving 'ewuality' that's life.

[Sleepybeanbump]

Equality.
Stupid phone.

[yougottheshining]

Mr smugoo the flat will be paid for by hard work alright - that of your tenants. And probably by the rest of us as well at least at some point, given that more than one in six tenants are on housing benefit.

[Sleepybeanbump]

I'm not madly pro buy to let landlords btw, and I think any perks need to be taken away from them to level the playing field, but I think this idea of them all being exploitative is absurd. Some people are never realistically going to be able to buy, don't want to, or don't want to right then (schools, want to move around, waiting for the right house). So a rental market is a needed service. And anyone providing any kind of service in a capitalist economy gets financially rewarded for it. Of course.

[FrazzleM]

I inherited a property and now I'm stuck with it.

What would you propose I do OP?

Properties in the area are not selling and it already had tennants in it. I don't think they'd take kindly to being kicked out.

I haven't put up the rent and don't intend to. I gave my tennant a month rent free to compensate for the inconvenience of having workmen in.

Owning a buy to let property can be stressful and expensive. It's not fun getting a phonecall at 11pm to say the boiler's packed in. Trying to find a plumber is a nightmare, let alone one who'll turn up when they say they will.

Ultimately, I'd have preferred to inherit a cheque, or better still inherit nothing and have my Dad with me.

[VeryBitchyRestingFace]

Unless you propose Communism as your way of achieving 'ewuality' that's life.

No properties good, four properties bad.

We are all equal, but some land owning pigs are more equal than others.

[Lweji]

And every time we buy something it lines the seller's pockets.

And BTW, I only bought my first flat at 30, put on a lot of hard work on it to update it, then the same with the house. Not to mention the paid work and to progress in my career, as well as the savings I did, to be able to afford the deposits.

A healthy property market offers properties for rent and for sale.