...to tell my mother we are never going to just "drop the kids off"?

[CheerfulYank]

I genuinely don't know if I'm being a massive bitch.

For starters we're all Americans and I know that long distances to you wouldn't seem quite so massive to us, so that may come into play. :) But.

My parents live about 300 miles from us. Takes five hours in the car on a good day. We have three kids (9, 3, 1) so it always takes considerably longer given bathroom stops etc.

DH works 8-6 Monday-Friday. I stay at home and do part time child minding during the school year and don't drive. (I really need to learn and stop being so afraid!) My parents are 56 but my mother is frequently not in fantastic health. She has chronic migraines and thyroid issues and has to get cortisone shots in her knee every few months. :( She works from home and is pretty flexible. My dad also owns his own business but works ib a hardware store on the side. (His business has been slow lately so he's picked up more shifts at the store, too)

Anyway. My DC are the only grandchildren on my side and seem likely to remain so, at least for years. My mom talks a lot about us moving closer but seems to have accepted that won't happen. She's talked a lot about moving closer to us but my dad REALLY doesn't want to. She still talks about it but I don't know how serious it is. She looks at houses occasionally but she admits that if it weren't for us, she would never think of leaving. I would like them closer but it's a lot of pressure for my family to be her only reason for being in a certain place. I would feel like we had to be around every time she wanted to stop by and also like we couldn't move if we ever wanted to. (I don't think we ever will, but who knows.)

They see the kids pretty often. They are really good about coming down and staying if I have a meeting or even a doctor's appointment or something. I NEVER make them feel obligated too but they always offer.

They often have the older two for long weekends at theirs.(Maybe every six weeks or so?) Usually we meet them halfway and drop off the kids. Sometimes they will bring them all the way back and sometimes we meet again. We don't often go all the way to theirs...maybe just a few times a year and then we stay in our family's lake cabin. The reason we don't is that our house is a fixer upper and there's always SOME project or another going. Plus DH and I rarely get to go out together so we use the time the kids are at my parents' to work on house stuff and/or occasionally go see an actual movie that doesn't have cartoon characters in it. :) My mom wasn't fussed about seeing me all that often before I had the kids (we get along well but she's pretty clear on the real draw being the DC) so I never think it's all that important that DH and I go up there.

This weekend is a long one (Labor Day here on Monday) and then DS starts school on Tuesday. A few days ago I was telling my mother that as it's the long weekend I was going to get a babysitter to be with the kids so I could finish the project I'm working on (switching some bedrooms around including repainting and ripping up carpet) because I want the boys to be settled in their new room before school starts. She texted "well you know you can drop them here anytime" and I didn't say anything... probably sent a smiley or something.

Today she brought up the weekend again and suddenly started in on how we never "just drop them off, you only bring them all the way here if you're going to stay at the cabin." I explained that that probably wouldn't happen because DH wouldn't be able to get there before midnight on a Friday night with them and then he would have to come right back on Sunday to get them. She just said "yep, I know" in a tone that implied she and my dad are always doing that very thing. Which isn't entirely true, they never take them just for a few days because it's not worth it with the driving. It's usually a four day weekend at least.

She said she was telling my dad how we NEVER just "drop them off" and he agreed and was angry about it.

I don't know if I'm BU or not but honestly I can't see that we are ever going to do that. I don't drive but even if (when, hopefully) I get my license I can't see driving five hours at night on a Friday and dropping them off and then leaving. If DH or I bring them up there we will stay for the weekend and then come home all together.

She got off the phone kind of quickly after that and I'm not really sure what to make of it all. My dad will drive down to drop the kids off or pick them up and then drive back a few hours later, but I always tell him it's madness and he should at least stay the night. He doesn't usually want to though. Once they drove down and stayed for six hours to see DS's school concert and then drove back home. I have never asked them to do any of this and I always try to get them to stay. We don't have a lot of room but they could sleep on our bed or the couches, but they never want to. My dad has talked about putting a guest room in our garage (he's a carpenter of sorts) and maybe then they would.

I don't want to make it sound like "if you don't pick them up halfway you won't see them as often" but to put it bluntly that's kind of the way of it. DH can't take his whole weekend driving there and back and there and back again and we can't always get away for an entire weekend to stay up there (we have a massive dog too and no one to watch him when we leave so we have to take him with us and he doesn't get on well with my parents' dogs). We could probably make it up every 2-3 months as a family and stay for a weekend but I know she will complain about going that long and also not seeing them "all to herself."

AIBU to say that we are never going to just "drop them off"? Sorry this is so long.

I live a 5+ hour car journey from my parents but one is disabled so can't visit our house. I only bring the DC up to visit during school holidays because IME the journey is too exhausting for DC on friday night/sunday when school on Monday. We're lucky and can now get trains (4.5 hours door to do) which DC and I prefer.

Agree with PPs that you learning to drive is essential: that you've only just identified it's an issue!

Every six weeks or so sounds way too much for DC to do that length journey IMO.

suggest that you seek local childcare / to build a network and stop talking about childcare with your DM.

Childcare so far away for short times is not actually what you need because either your H has to do a crazy round trip, which is hard, or the GPs drive a lot too, which they say they find hard, plus too much car time for the DC. Better to view any trips to the GPs as for you and the DC to spend time with them: less often!

You say that your Mum has made it plain that the kids are whom she wants to see and not you, so then she sees them when it is convenient for you. I wouldn't want mine away the weekend before school started, as we would have been checking that we had everything necessary for school, and doing a last minute dash to the shops for anything we had forgotten; finding sports kit, labelling everything etc, and then having some relaxed time together.

Just tell your Mum there's too much to do to contemplate a 300 mile drive this weekend.

For a start it would presumably cost more in fuel than it would to get a babysitter (although, having said that, fuel is cheap in the US). There is no way what your mother is suggesting is sensible. It would completely negate the idea of the free time to complete your project.

CherrfulYank I seem to remember a thread about a family photo and a colour scheme for clothes which suggests that your mother is not known for being entirely reasonable where you are concerned. So I suspect that your slightly throwaway comment about how you aren't close with your mother conceals a whole bigger picture. Anyway, I declare YANBU.

Oh yes, if DM prioritises time with the DC without you present then this should be infrequent.

I dislike it when GPs seek to bypass their DC to spend time alone with GC, and make little effort with their own DC! Have direct experience of this, both as a GC and parent, and believe in this scenario "boundaries" are important.

ApocolypseSlough - I used to live in the States and my opinion comes from prior experience. Yours comes out of your ass.

Learn to drive.
Build an extra room and bathroom in the garage. The reason they don't stay over is prob lack of big comfy bed, lack of privacy and lack of own bathroom - ask them to contribute to this or to help build it

Honestly I don't think either side is unreasonable and I can see it from both sides. A 10 hour round trip is nuts whoever does it.

I think you're being unreasonable getting them to babysit in the first place

They aren't getting them to baby sit. The parents offer.

I can't get my head round the idea of driving 5 hours to "drop the kids off"! One hour - absolute tops. It sounds like you and they both make a big effort for them to see the children, which is nice, but to expect your DH to sacrifice a huge chunk of his free time to facilitate it (and being stuck in a car as well) is ridiculous. I don't think you are being unreasonable at all, OP.

is there any other way of getting to your parents, like the train or a bus journey?

I agree, its a very long drive and not something you could just do on a whim, your parents sound a bit unreasonable here.

Yanbu. That's too long a drive for a short weekend, both for DH and the kids.

You offer what you can. If they want more then they have to put a bit more of the effort in.

They chose to move away from her family and haven't seen them often. They can't blame you for doing the same.

The offer of your DH taking them on the Friday and meeting halfway on the Monday sounds good. You have to compromise a bit with families and it is nice to keep the GPs involved.

Astoria797
Really? And many parents of 3+ commuted 300 miles --ass talker yourself!-

I think I would ask the parents to stay for as long as possible. Get the father to help with the remodernisation of the house and convert the space they talked about into their guest room - if that's what you want and get the Mum to babysit that way you get to do as much did as you want.

I live in the US as well, and my daughter's dad lives a similar distance away from me. Four hours one way with no stopping, stretching to 5 or 6 (or more) depending on conditions (and sometimes completely impossible in the winter). I've done it many times, up and back Friday and up and back on Sunday - and it's ridiculous, much, much too far to do if you don't have to.

I can't see the problem with the kids having a few hrs with just your parents when you are staying with them.

I don't see why you ever have to take them there & leave them, even if you are only half an hr away, for example.

Can't they come to you to collec them? Our children's grandparents sometimes did that - took a train hundreds of miles to pick up the children and take them back. Also we would when oldest child was older put the children on a train at our end and the grandparents met them at the other.

Astoria average commute in the USA is 23 minutes

Actually the average commute in terms of time in the UK is more than twice as long at 55 minutes

Actually the TUC data may be total in a day and the US census data each way - but that still makes the average UK commute slightly longer, even if you half the 55 minute and get 27.5 minutes each way in the UK.

What stood out for me is that in the phone call your mother:

first accused you of something, 'YOU never just drop them off'

then told you what your father was feeling (angry, according to her)

then did a tight lipped 'yup' about the journey length.

This type of communication can, if you don't spot it, send you into all types of needing to justify and explain (in your head, to others etc). What she didn't do at any time is use an 'I' phrase: 'I would love ....' or be honest or direct about her feelings: 'I feel ....'

YANBU to say we're not in a position to 'just drop them off'. But by being indirect, your mother has made it harder for you to tell her this directly.

CheerfulYank I love a long Original Post on AIBU, it's like reading a story :o and avoids the drip feeds or the speculation in following posts, if they have actually read the first one :D MNers are mainly intelligent enough people to read and understand what would be about half a printed page of text I suspect :D

YANBU - My ILs are only an hour to an hour and a half's drive and mainly see the kids at theirs at times to suit them - like your parents. It is nice because they want to see the kids and the kids love it, but I wouldn't drive much further than that only to turn around and drive home, and come back again a day or two later! 5-6 hours drive each way is how far we drive to go on holiday and I wouldn't do it to "drop the kids off" if I was turning straight around to come back, except on their first day of university or to some other "special" longer stay - certainly not just for a weekend at the grandparents!

Its an incredibly long time in the car for the kids if they are only staying 1 or 2 nights no matter who is driving, and would not seem worth it for that reason. I wouldn't be that keen for my kids to be car passengers for 10 hours a weekend too often. Do they sleep in the car? Don't they bicker at all? Are they distracting to the driver?

Presumably your parents wouldn't expect you to "drop off" your youngest at theirs?

I think Koan makes excellent points though - you and your mum probably have a history of not communicating clearly and this is probably your actual problem. If you could both speak honestly and clearly to one another you could clear things up, rather than her manipulating you with all the emotional jibes and implicit emotional blackmail about how you are making them feel...

I never ever ask them to take the kids, they always ask.

^^ I suspect that this may be the crux of your problem.
It sounds like your parents may feel that it is always them begging to see the DGCs. That they keep offering and you keep turning them down. That it is a very one way street and if they didn't offer and push, then you wouldn't ask and they wouldn't get to see the DGCs.
The bit about only going to see your parents when you are going to the cabin also makes me think that they feel you have a tendency to use them when it suits you.

Now, I know that you don't want to impose on them and there are very good and sensible reasons for visits working out the way they do, and their perspective way be a bit skewed but I think you need to have a rethink about how you interact with them so they feel included a bit more. I don't know how to make that work over such a distance, but maybe look at using Skype or Facetime, getting the DCs to make little cards or pictures and send them in the post. Little things so that there is a constant ebb and flow of contact between your parents and their DGCs - filling the gaps between visits.

Oh, and when they offer to help, thank them properly and specifically (even if you are declining). Don't shrug it off with an emoji - that is really quite rude.

Can't they come to you to collec them?

Did you actually read the first post??

PerspicaciaTick it isn't a genuine offer of help though is it "You can drop the kids off here if you want" would be an offer of help if you lived half an hour's drive away or less, not if "dropping them off" and picking them up would mean at least 20 hours of driving - at least twenty hours! Allowing for two rest stops on the two legs with the kids and a quick one on the solo legs that is probably 24 hours travel time.

You do not have to be too profuse and grateful in your thanks to somebody for offering something they no you will never take them up on, especially when they are doing it as part of having a dig at you.

Cafe driving in America is essential unless you live in a New York or similiar big city.