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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be fed up with this type of make-up article?

112 replies

Flugelpip · 31/08/2016 19:58

www.the-pool.com/beauty/beauty-honestly/2016/35/juno-dawson-on-discovering-the-sisterhood-of-make-up

The author is a YA writer who is transitioning from male to female, and this is her take on best make-up practice after wearing it for less than a year.

I'm not prejudiced against trans people - I know and like people across a spectrum of genders and none of it bothers me - but it irritates the life out of me that someone who has been wearing make-up for a year feels they can give advice to women who probably know a lot more about it than they do. I don't care what thirteen-year-olds think about make-up either although they are probably better at eyeliner than me. I'm not VERY annoyed at the author for writing it but I'm peeved as hell at The Pool for commissioning it.

OP posts:
TheSparrowhawk · 31/08/2016 21:16

Perhaps I could be a role model for African-identifying white Europeans eh unicorn? No problem at all with that, just don't read my articles.

ShiroiKoibito · 31/08/2016 21:24

"I haven't been driving for very long. I'm not going to write an article about how to drive and expect Top Gear fans to be interested."

but as a new driver, you might right about some hints and tips your friends gave you and if they worked for you - you're right make up artists probably wont be interested in this blog - but someone will

there is something EVERYWHERE on the internet that will upset you - if its not harming someone else, i fail to see your problem with it

I think you are very U

TheSparrowhawk · 31/08/2016 21:29

I love how everyone avoids the question of how they'd react if a white person who 'identified' as black wrote an article about how to do make up for dark skin, with the attitude that they know all about it.

Or is it that erasing black identity is abhorrent but erasing women's identity is absolutely fine?

SoHairy · 31/08/2016 21:33

TheSparrowhawk I think for some people it's a case of not wanting to think too long or too hard about it. I totally agree with you, btw.

BuonoEstente · 31/08/2016 21:35

Transphobic mumnet? Genuinely I've never found a place more tolerant and accepting of everyone.

SaucyJack · 31/08/2016 21:35

Whatevs really Sparrowhawk.

I'm just not offended by trans people- like you are- and that's that.

TheSparrowhawk · 31/08/2016 21:36

That's a very well reasoned argument Saucy, glad to see women are thinking so hard about this.

RestlessTraveller · 31/08/2016 23:02

Transphobia is the ugliest side of MN.

I couldn't agree more. It's an embarrassment.

DioneTheDiabolist · 31/08/2016 23:19

YAB really fucking U. There are loads of Fuck Trans threads on here that you could have contributed to OP, but you started another one.Angry

Astoria797 · 31/08/2016 23:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheSparrowhawk · 31/08/2016 23:36

How is it not the same thing?

CoteDAzur · 31/08/2016 23:38

"Make up is very important to transitioning women. It basically makes them look and feel like women"

Women don't transition to become transwomen. Men transition to become transwomen. I think you meant to say "Makeup is very important to transitioning men" or "Makeup is very important to transwomen".

I don't know about 'feel' but re makeup making transwomen 'look like women' - Have you seen the photo in OP's article?

ageingrunner · 31/08/2016 23:40

I must admit I'm not that impressed by being told by a trans woman that wearing makeup is a feminist act

TheSparrowhawk · 31/08/2016 23:42

The very idea that wearing make up can make a man 'look and feel' like a woman is insulting.

If I said blackface made me 'look and feel' African would you say 'nobody has the right to minimise that'? Or would you say 'fuck off you delusional racist'?

WorraLiberty · 31/08/2016 23:49

Transphobia is the ugliest side of MN.

I agree 100%.

OP, if you look hard enough across the internet you'll see all manner of people offering up their experiences for people to read, no matter how inexperienced they are.

This just seems like yet more transgender bashing.

If you don't care what thirteen-year-olds think about make-up either, then why did you choose this particular person, rather than a thirteen year old, offering up her advice/relatively new experience?

ITCouldBeWorse · 31/08/2016 23:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

venusinscorpio · 31/08/2016 23:55

Sparrowhawk, re the blackface analogy, why do those accusing people of transphobia never ever engage with this point? That's a rhetorical question, it's quite obvious why not.

DixieWishbone · 01/09/2016 00:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QuackDuckQuack · 01/09/2016 00:02

I think that the writer of the article may have confused feminist and feminine. I can't see how wearing makeup would be a feminist domaine.

I wonder whether there are transwomen out there that are more like the type of woman I am. I rarely wear makeup and clearly mix with a different sort of woman as the only makeup conversations I've had have been with people selling me makeup. I don't doubt that there are plenty of women who do wear makeup regularly and have these conversations.

7Days · 01/09/2016 00:03

it's not the fact that some random on the internet wrote something people disagree with - it's the fact that established institutions are ushering them to the front to tell women what's what.

Ok in this case it's only the Pool. But it doesn't start and end there.

Imagine a 13 yr old, taking artificial hormones, writing an article on coping with the menopause.
And then bringing campfires and shared wisdom into it

venusinscorpio · 01/09/2016 00:03

The point is Rachel Dolezal got quite a different response. That is the issue.

Flugelpip · 01/09/2016 00:24

I didn't mention any other article because this is the one I read and that's what prompted me to post. Hmm

There is a genuinely interesting and helpful article to be written that's 'here's what I, a trans woman, have learned about doing make-up and how it makes me feel. These are the things I've learned I need to think about with my particular set of features and what I want to look like. I, a trans woman, like many trans women, need to consider things such as foundation, eyebrow shape, contouring, decent lip liner, and these are my priorities.' That would be awesome. That would help a lot of trans girls, I have no doubt. I have loads of time for that, just as I watch make-up videos by kids with acne with absolute awe at their bravery and skill, and I love reading about how other cultures feel about beauty and what people in those cultures do. Black hair, black skin, Korean make-up, Japanese style - interested, here for it, ready to learn, open-minded.

That is not what this is, and that's what annoys me. There's precious little that's useful in that article for women, including trans women. Juno is not famous for her make-up skills. I do not think the fact of her being trans automatically makes up for that, and frankly I think it's worse to accord her special unicorn status for the very fact of being trans and overlook the fact that, like many who are new to make-up, she isn't all that great about knowing what suits her and applying it. NOR AM I. She's working out her look, and good for her. But I'm not writing how-to articles about it and really, neither should she.

I am fed up with celebrities of whatever kind being offered opportunities to write articles/books about things they don't really understand. The trans aspect of this is misleading a lot of posters about my intention in writing the original post. Hope this clears it up.

OP posts:
Lorelei76 · 01/09/2016 00:27

This is just product placement surely?

The line about feminism and make up does make me cringe.

I'm not a make up person but I must admit I am curious about the author's age. I do notice that some people, old and young, have so much make up on you could never guess their age - but is that the plan? I guess it must be. I do own concealer as my insomnia makes me look like death some days, but apart from that I have no interest and I really cant see it as remotely feminist.

ageingrunner · 01/09/2016 00:32

I wear makeup but I don't kid myself it's feminist or inducting me into a mysterious ancient sisterhood

JustGettingStarted · 01/09/2016 00:41

I love makeup and I love talking to other makeup lovers. It can be a bit of a girly bonding thing.

But I don't need makeup to be female. I'm female because I have a vagina and all the biological and social things that implies.

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