To be fed up with this type of make-up article?

[Flugelpip]

www.the-pool.com/beauty/beauty-honestly/2016/35/juno-dawson-on-discovering-the-sisterhood-of-make-up

The author is a YA writer who is transitioning from male to female, and this is her take on best make-up practice after wearing it for less than a year.

I'm not prejudiced against trans people - I know and like people across a spectrum of genders and none of it bothers me - but it irritates the life out of me that someone who has been wearing make-up for a year feels they can give advice to women who probably know a lot more about it than they do. I don't care what thirteen-year-olds think about make-up either although they are probably better at eyeliner than me. I'm not VERY annoyed at the author for writing it but I'm peeved as hell at The Pool for commissioning it.

[botanically]

Did you actually read it though? She's not giving advice, she's sharing advice given to her that she found helpful.

Even if she was giving advice herself, what's the big deal? Some people have a natural talent for things, should they be prevented from advising other people about it until a sufficient amount of time has passed. How much time? And says who?

You're just trying to stir up some drama/a long thread, methinks.

[ToastDemon]

Role models for trans kids? What the hell have we taught our children about the rigidity of gender roles, or the fallacy of ladybrain, that we even have such a a thing as trans kids?

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

Badlands I don't remove my leg hair. Never have. My lower legs are probably my most delicate feature and they're well hairy. DH actually says they're smoother than shaven legs he encountered pre me. I'm blonde so it's only noticeable if I wear black tights. I hate rights.
Rest of me looks like an old spud but there you go

[BadlandsOhYeah]

Men should be able to wear makeup as they please. Doesn't make them a woman. This article is classic mansplaining in my opinion.

My mother wore makeup but she didn't teach me how to. She just told me I was ugly and fat.

That is what it means to be a woman. Feeling shame about your body, and that it doesn't meet some fantastical societal concept. Despite being fairly slim (ha! mother), I have thick ankles, which don't meet the feminine ideal. (I've never thought it makes me look manly though.) I feel like a fool when I wear 'feminine' footwear and look in the mirror. Society has made me feel like that, not some innate awareness of 'femininity'. For the record, I have never shaved my legs (no point when I was so ugly) but I don't think my legs are masculine. I think body hair is feminine and beautiful. No one else does though, so if I don't want to be judged for it when in a new situation I have to cover it up.

So body shame and feelings of desire to change your body is not just relegated to people who want to identify as a woman. I'm trapped in the body I was born with.

And I don't think there's any difference between this and blackface.

[EttaJ]

Ffs. Stop overusing the word transphobic. It is not transphobic to disagree . The article is utter baloney, no matter who wrote it. Transphobic my behind.

[IceRoadDucker]

Transphobia is the ugliest side of MN.

Thirding (fourthing? whatever-ing) this.

[ageingrunner]

I think it would actually be good if trans kids had some role models amongst people who had struggled with gender identity but come out te other side without transitioning. I think the trans story at the moment is a bit one sided. We need to hear from those who went through puberty and became comfortable in their own skin, without hormones or surgery, whether they remained gender non-conforming, or whether they became more happy wearing the clothes more generally associated with their born sex.

[redshoeblueshoe]

Giddy - there is the same age gap between us, as between my eldest and youngest siblings. My DD on the other hand managed to master the whole make-up stuff with no hindrance help from me

[RunningLulu]

The burkha post is gone but this transphobic ones remains. Lovely

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

redshoe We were never the most cosmoplitan of women in our family so maybe that accounts for our age gap

[SpeakNoWords]

Is it transphobic to disagree with the author and say that make up is not a feminist domain, and that mystical rites of passage surrounding make up are not an important part of growing up as a woman, if they even generally exist at all?

[FatElephant]

Yeah, I did say I wasn't transphobic, but for the hard of reading comprehension I'll say it again.

Yeah, saying you're not transphobic then continuing to make transphobic comments doesn't really stop you being transphobic. "I'm not a misogynist, but I do think women should know their place in the kitchen"...

If the article bothers you, don't read it. I'm glad trans kids and adults have role models, something they are hugely lacking.

[Backingvocals]

I do mind the cis bit in the other article though.

[WilLiAmHerschel]

And the article doesn't stop at make up I see, dermal fillers are recommended.

I'm reminded so often of this:

[Backingvocals]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the article apart from the feminism and sisterhood bit. My mother has never spoken one word about make up. I wear it but don't have anything to say about it. So he's got that concept of womanhood a bit wonky imho but I'm sure there are lots of women like that and maybe those are the ones he wants to emulate.

I think maybe that's at the heart of it. He wants to emulate some of the ways of women he knows rather than being his own woman because he isn't one. But perhaps that's how we all build an identity - taking bits and pieces that we like and stitching them into a person. And maybe that's why some of these articles offend - because they sound a bit naive sometimes. Like a teenager searching for an identity.

Anyway I thought the article was fine. His findings about makeup. I don't mind that. I don't own the cultural concept of makeup.

[WilLiAmHerschel]

I think calling make up a feminist domain is offensive to women. Look at the shit Alicia Keys got recently for deciding to stop wearing it.

[Catsize]

If you actually read the article OP, rather than glancing at it with anti-trains blinkers, you'll see it is a collection of make-up tips given by others, no doubt people who 'qualify' to give such tips in your eyes.

It is probably an interesting read for anyone starting out in the world of make-up.

I am nearly 40 and would be utterly clueless - I hate everything make-up stands for - but would be greatly assisted by this article if I changed my mind.

[AltheaThoon]

rite of passage.

[AltheaThoon]

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/news/features/2016/01/05/juno-dawson-columnist-on-transitioning-into-a-woman-part-1

Juno Dawson is also a columnist for Glamour magazine. This article tells us what being a woman means. Spoiler alert, it starts with liking 'girls'' toys and clothes. I do wonder if such an article would appear in a magazine for transgender people (though I don't know if such a publication exists) written by a woman. You know, telling the readers what being a woman means and explaining how to use makeup.

I'm another one who missed the makeup chats around the campfire. Wearing makeup is not a right of passage into womanhood.

[NovemberInDailyFailLand]

No make-up for any of us in our house! Managed 12 babies between us, though, so I reckon we did this being women thing ok.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

The author is very much mistaken if they believe wearing makeup means they pass.

[redshoeblueshoe]

Whoops - I am so sorry Brasty I got your name wrong

[redshoeblueshoe]

Bratsy the only conversation I've had about make-up was with Giddy (and I am 50 ish)

[brasty]

I see someone on thread saying bullshit to those saying they never had these kind of conversations with friends or female relatives. But I really didn't. The only conversation I have ever had with friends about make up are:

1. Maybe some day you will be brave enough to wear brighter red lipstick - like the girl who said it wore. I hate bright red lipstick.
   
2. I like your eye make up - said twice to me.
   
3. Your face looks slightly green - when I had tried that green stuff you were supposed to put on your face underneath foundation to make your skin less red.
   

That is it. I am in my 50s and they are the only conversations I have ever had in my life about make up.

[brasty]

I never had these conversations with my mother or friends.
Mother - if you are going to wear lipstick make sure you wash your face properly before going to bed. I am not going to try and get lipstick out of your pillowcases.