To be fed up with this type of make-up article?

[Flugelpip]

www.the-pool.com/beauty/beauty-honestly/2016/35/juno-dawson-on-discovering-the-sisterhood-of-make-up

The author is a YA writer who is transitioning from male to female, and this is her take on best make-up practice after wearing it for less than a year.

I'm not prejudiced against trans people - I know and like people across a spectrum of genders and none of it bothers me - but it irritates the life out of me that someone who has been wearing make-up for a year feels they can give advice to women who probably know a lot more about it than they do. I don't care what thirteen-year-olds think about make-up either although they are probably better at eyeliner than me. I'm not VERY annoyed at the author for writing it but I'm peeved as hell at The Pool for commissioning it.

[OnlyHereForTheCamping]

A lot of stuff in The Pool is mediocre bollocks, read what interests you and skim what doesn't .

I really object to the fact that a few threads highlighting genuine concerns around transitioning have opened the flood gates to this level of bigotry

[QuackDuckQuack]

Maybeshesawomble - it is the made up crap about what women do or experience that I think is being objected to. The 'swapping stories and intergenerational guidance' that Juno thinks she's missed out on.

I don't think anyone objects to the actual makeup advice.

[SpeakNoWords]

TheMaddhugger I find that I disagree with several points or statements that the writer of this article has made. Namely, "make up strikes me...as a hugely feminist domain". The author makes no argument for why they think this, they just make a bald statement. I disagree with this point of view. Feminists could have plenty to say about make up and its role in female gender stereotypes. And of course make up is a typically feminine domain, but I can't see how it's a feminist domain.

I also don't recognise any of the scenarios the author supposes happens between women wrt make up. It certainly hasn't been my experience with my mother, sister and friends. I couldn't care less about make up/hair/nails and don't ever bring it up as a topic of conversation. I don't think it is an important aspect of being a woman, in fact it is entirely optional and essentially irrelevant.

I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that minor plastic surgery (lip fillers) are something to recommend generally and uncritically with no mention of side effects or possible negative outcomes.

[SoHairyAndForeverSpartacus]

Posters claiming there is transphobia within this thread.. please do feel free to make use of the report post function if you feel that guidelines have been broken. MN have recently clarified their position on transphobia a little, so I'm sure that they'll be eager to remove anything breaking the clarified guidelines.

Or y'know, you could just shout 'transphobia!' and try to shut down a discussion yourself instead

[specialsubject]

The article is somebody earning a living by promoting sticky stuff. We've all got to put food on the table.

although I think the person on the right of the photo looks the best.

[SoHairyAndForeverSpartacus]

Interesting.
From memory, the deleted posts by Astoria797 and TheMaddHugger included personal attacks aimed at TheSparrowhawk and the OP Flugelpip respectively. They were not deleted for any perceived transphobia, in case anyone's also interested.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

Listen up and I'll pass on the womanly knowledge of the art of make up that was imparted to me:
My nan: oooh you don't need that stuff, you're lovely as you are...
My mum: Ummmmm...a bit of blue eyeshadow?
My friends: Oh my God, what do you mean it's tested on animals? Don't tell me that!
Me: Aaargh get off my hair!!! Yes I know I can lick my fringe. I'll cut it myself.

So that went well...

[redshoeblueshoe]

Giddy I was going to come on and say Guess how old I am ?
but I think you might know
My gran you don't need make-up
My mum Blue
My friends What ?
My male friends (as a teen) Can I borrow your eyeliner
Me - I didn't even wear make-up at my wedding !

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

I'm 46...

[redshoeblueshoe]

I'm old enough to be your much older sister

[WiddlinDiddlin]

IS this a 'trans' issue, or a 'transphobia' issue..

Or is it just really bloody annoying that lots of people use the internet as a platform to waffle on as if they are an authority figure on a subject or field that they are in fact, relatively new to.

Becuase that IS really annoying no matter who the person is!

[brasty]

I never had these conversations with my mother or friends.
Mother - if you are going to wear lipstick make sure you wash your face properly before going to bed. I am not going to try and get lipstick out of your pillowcases.

[brasty]

I see someone on thread saying bullshit to those saying they never had these kind of conversations with friends or female relatives. But I really didn't. The only conversation I have ever had with friends about make up are:

1. Maybe some day you will be brave enough to wear brighter red lipstick - like the girl who said it wore. I hate bright red lipstick.
   
2. I like your eye make up - said twice to me.
   
3. Your face looks slightly green - when I had tried that green stuff you were supposed to put on your face underneath foundation to make your skin less red.
   

That is it. I am in my 50s and they are the only conversations I have ever had in my life about make up.

[redshoeblueshoe]

Bratsy the only conversation I've had about make-up was with Giddy (and I am 50 ish)

[redshoeblueshoe]

Whoops - I am so sorry Brasty I got your name wrong

[Alisvolatpropiis]

The author is very much mistaken if they believe wearing makeup means they pass.

[NovemberInDailyFailLand]

No make-up for any of us in our house! Managed 12 babies between us, though, so I reckon we did this being women thing ok.

[AltheaThoon]

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/news/features/2016/01/05/juno-dawson-columnist-on-transitioning-into-a-woman-part-1

Juno Dawson is also a columnist for Glamour magazine. This article tells us what being a woman means. Spoiler alert, it starts with liking 'girls'' toys and clothes. I do wonder if such an article would appear in a magazine for transgender people (though I don't know if such a publication exists) written by a woman. You know, telling the readers what being a woman means and explaining how to use makeup.

I'm another one who missed the makeup chats around the campfire. Wearing makeup is not a right of passage into womanhood.

[AltheaThoon]

rite of passage.

[Catsize]

If you actually read the article OP, rather than glancing at it with anti-trains blinkers, you'll see it is a collection of make-up tips given by others, no doubt people who 'qualify' to give such tips in your eyes.

It is probably an interesting read for anyone starting out in the world of make-up.

I am nearly 40 and would be utterly clueless - I hate everything make-up stands for - but would be greatly assisted by this article if I changed my mind.

[WilLiAmHerschel]

I think calling make up a feminist domain is offensive to women. Look at the shit Alicia Keys got recently for deciding to stop wearing it.

[Backingvocals]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the article apart from the feminism and sisterhood bit. My mother has never spoken one word about make up. I wear it but don't have anything to say about it. So he's got that concept of womanhood a bit wonky imho but I'm sure there are lots of women like that and maybe those are the ones he wants to emulate.

I think maybe that's at the heart of it. He wants to emulate some of the ways of women he knows rather than being his own woman because he isn't one. But perhaps that's how we all build an identity - taking bits and pieces that we like and stitching them into a person. And maybe that's why some of these articles offend - because they sound a bit naive sometimes. Like a teenager searching for an identity.

Anyway I thought the article was fine. His findings about makeup. I don't mind that. I don't own the cultural concept of makeup.

[WilLiAmHerschel]

And the article doesn't stop at make up I see, dermal fillers are recommended.

I'm reminded so often of this:

[Backingvocals]

I do mind the cis bit in the other article though.