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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be depressed at the blatant sexism in my office

96 replies

DraeneiMage · 30/08/2016 15:20

Just that really.

He's 19, 5 years younger than me (is that relevant?) been here 3 years less than I have and somehow he's worth more than me.

Must be cause I'm a woman.

I always forget sexism is a thing and then it smacks you in the face.

sigh

OP posts:

Comejointhemurder · 30/08/2016 16:58

He might just be doing a better job than you. Or he might not. Concluding it's 'because I'm a woman' sounds like a bit of a leap.

Just ask the MD why. You might then be able to judge whether or not it's due to sexism.

FullTimeYummy · 30/08/2016 18:00

If i'd heard the OP anywhere else, i'd assume it was a wind up, but i've seen enough woe is me/poor little women stuff on here to believe that this could be a genuine complaint.

phillipp · 30/08/2016 18:11

I'm a wimp and I wouldn't know how to go about getting a pay rise. I'm very non confrontational.

this is probably why he is paid more. Because he pushed for it. Doesn't mean your MD is sexist.

ilovesooty · 30/08/2016 18:13

If your performance at work justifies a pay increase gather evidence and present your case instead of whining about perceived sexism.

Buttfucknowhere · 30/08/2016 18:23

I have worked in HR in a few places where the entry pay for men was always higher than for women (same roles).
Generally this is fuelled by recruiting managers who think men are worth more, or assume that they will reject a lower salary/negotiate harder than women. So it's not always the fault of women not being assertive enough, very often they're on the back foot from the get go.

Not saying that's necessarily the case here, just saying I've seen it a lot, and it's mostly institutional. It may not be the ops fault, but how do we know if this guy even asked for more money, never mind negotiated it?

Stevefromstevenage · 30/08/2016 18:31

The chap is 19. Why are people speculating he is very experienced or is a graduate? The OP would have probably mentioned if he was a child prodigy.

It being Mumsnet I am ready for the litany of posts about 19 year old experienced graduates.

user1472561038 · 30/08/2016 18:33

Honestly if you don't have the guts to ask for a payrise then potentially that attitude is reflected elsewhere in your work. Do you generally have a proactive, can do, attitude or do you spend your time worrying about what others are doing/getting and things being 'unfair'.

I'm sure you can find a list of reasons why you deserve more money, actual examples of achievements in your role, ways you've made or saved them money for example and go into your MD armed with those and ask. You have nothing to lose. I've never been turned down when asking. Go for it.

carefreeeee · 30/08/2016 18:53

Depressing. It's happened to me twice.

One of the times the man had actually lied about his qualifications so I guess that wasn't the company's fault.

But no-one ever gets a pay rise unless they ask for it. Probably the men were more forceful about it than me.

Original poster

DraeneiMage · 30/08/2016 19:04

I do payroll, so yes know his wages.

I also know he hasn't asked for a pay rise as this was his starting salary with a standard increase in April which we all get, and I also organise all the MD's meetings so would know if they had a meeting/word about it. It's a small company so I do a bit of everything.

I'd find it easier to ask for a pay rise if I could go in, ask, and slink away in the event the MD says no - but as I share an office with him it's hard.

I will ask though.

Maybe I was wrong to jump to sexism just not sure why he's been given such a higher starting salary...

OP posts:

Original poster

DraeneiMage · 30/08/2016 19:07

Tbh I suspect the fact I was away for a year on maternity leave has something to do with it.

I didn't get any salary increases until I returned to work so I just missed out on 2 pay rises.

OP posts:

larrygrylls · 30/08/2016 19:13

It does sound sexist to me if he is junior and earning more (unless there is a heavy performance element and he is demonstrably selling more or somehow earning the company more money).

Firstly find out what you are worth (looking at similar positions advertised), then ask for that amount. If you don't get it, maybe look at leaving.

You would have a very good discrimination case against the company if they make things unpleasant for you.

Buttfucknowhere · 30/08/2016 19:16

If you do payroll that's great, the MD will know he can't bs about what other people are getting to you.

Nothing wrong with having a conversation at your next 121/appraisal and saying you've noticed that the starting salary for your role is now more than you got/are getting and ask innocently if there's a timeframe for bringing your salary in line with others on the same level? Non-confrontational, but make sure it's during or after a conversation about good performance on your part. Bring lots of evidence to the meeting about how well you're meeting/exceeding targets.

I know it's hard, I'm not one to blow my own trumpet either, but we live in a societal patriarchy, it takes masculine qualities in most businesses to succeed. Until the world changes, women do have to adopt traditionally male attributes at work if they want to do well (disclaimer: not in all workplaces obviously and it's not how it should be).

Also, if you don't love your job, I would leave if it doesn't improve. Often you have more value in the marketplace to a new employer and you might be able to find something with a higher salary.

HeCantBeSerious · 30/08/2016 19:17

Discrimination? They aren't doing the same role by the sounds of it so that's not going to fly!

FullTimeYummy · 30/08/2016 19:55

larrygrylls "It does sound sexist to me if he is junior and earning more"

[facepalm]

larrygrylls · 30/08/2016 20:11

Yummy,

Have you read the thread? He is 19! What non graduate role should pay more than someone five years their senior? And did you read that the 19 year old would report to the op if two others were absent?

FullTimeYummy · 30/08/2016 20:28

I read the thread.

The small pay disparity (between two people in different roles, with different skills who were recruited at different times, who may have different skill sets, different work ethics etc. etc.) might be sexism.

There's a myriad of other reasons it's a fuckload more likely to be though

phillipp · 30/08/2016 20:38

OP were you there trough all his interviews and when he accepted the job. He may have negotiated a higher wage when he started.

The fact that you don't know there was a meeting scheduled while you were on may leave seems odd.

Jumping to 'my boss is sexist' without any evidence isn't helpful to you.

phillipp · 30/08/2016 20:39

He is 19! What non graduate role should pay more than someone five years their senior? And did you read that the 19 year old would report to the op if two others were absent?

I am not 19. But I have been paid a lot more than people older than me.

Reporting to the op if too other people aren't in doesn't make her senior. It makes her a back up.

Original poster

DraeneiMage · 30/08/2016 22:47

He didn't really have an interview, he worked with his father while he was over here visiting his dad, then when his family moved over he got a permanent role.

I suspect a lot of you are right, I was just a bit sore & bitter finding out he was being paid a fair chunk more than me.

I can't really say that I make the company more money than he does. I don't sell anything, I just do about 80% of the accounts for the company. He flits between everything, sometimes helps with installations, sometimes helps out in the office. He basically helps out and does small jobs for people who don't have the time to do them.

It is different skill sets but while I have a particular "niche" with the company (accounts), he doesn't really. He just does the small jobs and assists the busy people - although I'm sure it's greatly appreciated.

OP posts:

Original poster

DraeneiMage · 30/08/2016 22:50

I'm probably being petty.

As some of you are saying there's no point getting het up about something if I'm not trying to change it.

Saying that, the company is truly very small. Asking for pay rises isn't really a done thing here and I imagine I'll be one of only 1 or 2 people who have asked for one in the few years the company has been active.

I'll work it out somehow and gather up the courage to ask for one.

OP posts:

annandale · 30/08/2016 22:51

well, one option would be to go trawling for another job offer at a higher salary, then you can ask for an increase because you are not being paid the market rate.

Basically show them what they would have to pay if you weren't there.

Original poster

DraeneiMage · 30/08/2016 23:22

The only problem with that is the area I live in at the moment has an almost non existent job market

So many people are being paid off and companies are going into administration left right and centre.

Also, when I started at this company almost 8 years ago I was an administrator. The company has put me on a few courses not relating to accounts, but I have no actual qualification in accounting or anything related to it. I know in and out how to do the accounts for this company but I have no qualifications to allow me to find a comparable job elsewhere.

I've put my CV into one of those analyser things and it tells you your "worth". I have absolutely no idea how accurate it is but it told me my "worth" is 2k less than I'm on at the mo.

OP posts:

HeCantBeSerious · 30/08/2016 23:48

He's 19, 5 years younger than me (is that relevant?) been here 3 years less than I have and somehow he's worth more than me

Also, when I started at this company almost 8 years ago I was an administrator

So he was 14 when he started working there?

lamprey42 · 31/08/2016 01:04

Did you say you missed out on two pay rises while on maternity leave? I think you may be entitled to them. www.workingmums.co.uk/advice-and-support/not-given-a-pay-rise-due-to-maternity-leave/

Stevefromstevenage · 31/08/2016 01:23

i am not 19. But I have been paid a lot more than people older than me

As have I at at older age with a relevant degree and experience but 19 year olds have neither of those.

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