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AIBU?

To be depressed at the blatant sexism in my office

96 replies

DraeneiMage · 30/08/2016 15:20

Just that really.

He's 19, 5 years younger than me (is that relevant?) been here 3 years less than I have and somehow he's worth more than me.

Must be cause I'm a woman.

I always forget sexism is a thing and then it smacks you in the face.

sigh

OP posts:

Report

HeCantBeSerious · 31/08/2016 17:04

It's covered by the data protection act, isn't it?

MatildaOfTuscany · 31/08/2016 15:09

Re. salaries being kept private, as far as I am aware, no-one has the right to demand to know what another individual colleague earns. In large organisations with enough people coming under each job description it's fair enough to ask what the pay ranges for a given job are. What used to be the quite common but I believe are now illegal are gagging clauses forbidding individuals from choosing to reveal to their colleagues what their own salary is (thus preventing people comparing notes and discovering that one of them is being treated really unfairly). Perhaps someone who works in HR knows the precise legal situation.

I am, btw, really grateful to those of my male colleagues who voluntarily gave their pay and job description details to our trade union to enable my case and those of my female colleagues to be made.

DraeneiMage · 31/08/2016 14:58

WickerWoman, sounds very familiar yes!!!

It's always very subtle sexism, like you said teas and coffees and nibbles were only every requested to me or the other woman working here.
If we need any cleaning supplies a general manager here sends an email to the only 2 women in the office asking us to order them, there used to be 3 of us and he would always send emails requesting we order cleaning supplies, or stationary, "bitty" things that didn't matter much.

In any case, I'm actually online now looking at positions in different companies and what they might offer in terms of salary. Though there's not much choice..

OP posts:

TheWickerWoman · 31/08/2016 13:29

Are you working where I used to work?! It sounds exactly the same as an employer I worked for, for a good few years.

The two male company owners were sexist and there was favouritism going on. Only certain people got pay-rises and also extra holiday which they were told to keep quiet and pretend they'd had it unpaid (we know all this because the dozy office manager used to leave printouts of things that had been agreed lying on the shared printer.

Whenever there were visitors or meetings only the female staff were asked to make drinks, nip to the shops for nibbles and serve.

They would ring up and hound one female member of staff while she was on holiday to come in and help get an emergency document completed posted out on the promise they'd make it worth her while then handed her a cheap bottle of wine.

They would try to withhold money owed to me and pick stupid reasons as to what I'd done wrong which sometimes I really had to fight for. I know I'd have a case against them, the way they treated me but I was just so glad to leave there, I felt like a new person and so much healthier! It was making me ill.

It was a small relaxed office and it had a few good points but it was like something out of the 1970s, I'm now looking for jobs for twice the salary I was on there and I'm not short of interviews. I can't believe what I put up with for so long,

AppleSetsSail · 31/08/2016 12:08

This is why feminists are held in such low regard and people suffering genuine sexism are so often overlooked or dismissed

To be fair, the OP kicked her thread off with very little evidence of sexism.

Stevefromstevenage · 31/08/2016 12:05

This is why feminists are held in such low regard and people suffering genuine sexism are so often overlooked or dismissed

Feminists are not held in low regard by everyone Mary

AppleSetsSail · 31/08/2016 12:01

Not much of an argument, why do salaries need to be private

Financial information is considered private.

You might have a sexist employer but you've not provided any evidence of it here.

It's a very small piece of information, but her boss asks her if it's 'her time of the month' if she's in a bad mood.

OfaFrenchmind2 · 31/08/2016 11:52

I get paid a fair bit more than older colleagues in my team. And I don't have the same accreditations that they have, since I had not the same education. But I was ruthless on my starting salary before I signed my contract, telling them that I liked them but I wanted more, and more than their second offer. It was all very polite, but very assertive.
OP, you should ask, calmly, politely, and with well prepared arguments. It is not a confrontation, it is a negociation between adults. Worse that could happen there is a No.

BikeGeek · 31/08/2016 11:41

I've never seen a convincing argument for keeping salaries secret.
Privacy?

Not much of an argument, why do salaries need to be private

MaryMcCarthy · 31/08/2016 11:34

You might have a sexist employer but you've not provided any evidence of it here.

Shouting sexism at every opportunity devalues actual sexism and annoys people. There are all kinds of pay-influencing variables discussed in this thread, yet your first instinct was to shout "blatant sexism".

This is why feminists are held in such low regard and people suffering genuine sexism are so often overlooked or dismissed.

AppleSetsSail · 31/08/2016 10:36

What is wrong with girl? She's a girl? I'm a girl? She's a woman? We're both women, we're females? I don't get it?

It's true you're both female, but because you're human adult females you're called women.

'Girl' means human female child; is not an appropriate way of referring to adult females. It's a way of keeping them in 'their place'. There's a place in a girl's late teens where she's becoming a woman and there might be some ambiguity, but you're 24.

HeCantBeSerious · 31/08/2016 10:31

If % then it's easy for you to work out how much you've been short changed and ask for that money and the pay you'd be on now had you had those payrises. That's purely what you're entitled to (assuming you've had the same job throughout with no promotions).

HeCantBeSerious · 31/08/2016 10:29

Staff on maternity can't be discriminated against. If they have company cars they get to keep the company cars. If they'd get a payrise while in work then they get the payrise.

Staff working part time can't be discriminated against because of being part time either. If the full timers get a payrise, so should the part timers.

Do all staff get % increases per year or are they purely performance based?

HeCantBeSerious · 31/08/2016 10:27

He's not doing a great job of it.

DraeneiMage · 31/08/2016 10:21

What is wrong with girl? She's a girl? I'm a girl? She's a woman? We're both women, we're females? I don't get it?

OP posts:

DraeneiMage · 31/08/2016 10:21

Nope no HR.
Anything HR related is managed by the MD.

OP posts:

AppleSetsSail · 31/08/2016 10:15

When the sales guys are away, I sell stuff. When the other girl is away, I do her work.

Eek. Your casually sexist work environment is leaking into your vocabulary. Stop using the word 'girl' now to describe the women you work with!

HeCantBeSerious · 31/08/2016 10:13

Except any sort of HR.

DraeneiMage · 31/08/2016 10:06

Everyone does a bit of everything.
When the sales guys are away, I sell stuff. When the other girl is away, I do her work.
When the MD is away, I do his work.
When I'm away, the MD does my work.

Everyone is expected to help out where necessary.

OP posts:

DraeneiMage · 31/08/2016 10:05

The other girl is an administrator. She does the position I did 5 years ago.

OP posts:

HeCantBeSerious · 31/08/2016 10:03

Why does an organisation of 10 people need 2 PAs/accounts assistants?

HeCantBeSerious · 31/08/2016 10:02

Now that is unlawful.

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DraeneiMage · 31/08/2016 10:02

When I say 'swears at' I don't mean aggressively, people just swear a lot and three of the guys jokingly tell each other to fuck off a few times a day.

OP posts:

DraeneiMage · 31/08/2016 10:01

Probably, RunRabbit.

I get extremely anxious and feel sick and sweaty if someone is snippy or short with me, only ever at work though. As soon as I leave I couldn't give a stuff about 'pleasing people' but at work I'm weirdly sensitive about being shouted at/given into trouble or anything like that. It doesn't happen often here, but if anyone short with me I hang on it for ages and feel really weird about it.

The whole office is very relaxed, everyone is friendly with each other there's only about 10 of us here in the office, I've never really seen this place as a professional office. Everyone swears at each other and it's a mainly male office. I'm 1 of 2 females here, the other girl started long after me and is also on a higher wage than me and does very similar work.

I think it's something I'm going to have to bring up at the next staff review. I really do think my maternity leave had a massive impact on my wage and the fact I was part time before returning to full time. I was often called a 'part timer' and was told my pay increases would start again when I did full time work, which they did.

OP posts:

AppleSetsSail · 31/08/2016 09:38

I've never seen a convincing argument for keeping salaries secret.

Privacy?

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