To think the breast is best strategy is all wrong

[SheepOrWine]

Just back from the health visitor clinic where I was at in front of an entire wall (no exaggeration) telling me why breast is best. Apparently for one young woman it was the best decision she EVER made. This morning I read about another study which "proves" that breast is best (presumably because the many, many existing studies on this are not enough and they needed another one?) At my NHS antenatal breastfeeding class, more than half of the allocated time was dedicated to the benefits of breastfeeding.

Has anyone ever been persuaded to breastfeed by a poster or a news article? Is there anyone out there who seriously has not yet heard the "breast is best" message? Does the NHS just think women are a bit stupid but if you tell them to do something enough times they will do it?

Wouldn't this money be better spent on helping those women who want to breastfeed to do so successfully? Three months ago I was on a postnatal ward with DD where I received conflicting and often incorrect breastfeeding advice. Every time I buzzed for support a frazzled looking HCA or midwife would come and glance at the latch say "yeah that's fine" and walk off. I asked four times to see the breastfeeding advisor but she never arrived. I was discharged without anyone observing a feed.

8 weeks on I gave up breastfeeding as I just had enough of all the various problems I was having with it and for which I was completely unprepared. Before I had DD the posters were useless as like most women, I already knew I wanted to try to breastfeed. And now, post-breastfeeding, all these posters do is just make me feel guilty. What a waste of money.

Human breast milk is the best food for human babies.

The misinformation about how hard it is is what we need to stop, not breastfeeding information.

My babies are 11 and 9 years old now.

Both were FF by default. I had a terrible first birth with a third degree tear and all the interventions. DD was a pissed off baby. She just wouldn't latch. Not interested. I had a scary midwife shout at (yes shout at me) that I was starving my baby. I had planned a homebirth. The whole thing was miserable and wanted to go home. I was told that I stay until she bf or I give her formula and go home. I went home.

The next day the community mw told me that I couldn't try bf'ing anymore as I'd already 'ruined' it by giving her formula. I believed her and never tried again. I spent the rest of the year justifying myself (to myself).

Ds's birth was a lot easier, however I had liver function problems that made me severely ill for weeks. He got a bit of colostrum though.

If there had been post-natal support I think I would have succeeded with BF my dd. There was no reason I couldn't have tried at home. My milk hadn't even come in at the hospital ffs. In fact, my milk never came in. The whole thing was just so confusing and stressful.

Both my dcs are really healthy btw - never had an ear infection, hardly ever get colds or viruses.

The key is definitely the postnatal wards, I don't know anyone who's had a good postnatal ward experience and the bf support worker on mine was rushed off her feet, luckily she did latch dd on once and dd seemed to then get the hang of it, although it still hurt for about 6 weeks. Reading the bf forum on here and going to a breastfeeding cafe kept me going once I was out and convinced me the pain would subside soon, and it did.

But when you've just given birth, and you're tired and emotional and in pain, getting bf can be hard, and who's in the mood to do something hard at that point? If they had more support workers to supervise, advise, SUPPORT, then I'm sure bf rates would be higher.

I think if the NHS posters etc were honest about the pain (I honestly don't know many women who BD say they didn't find it painful at first), then it would go a long way to prepare people.

The misinformation about how hard it is is what we need to stop, not breastfeeding information.

A lot of women do find it hard in the beginning. But again, that is probably amplified by lack of support.

It still doesn't seem to be clear whether bf is painful in the beginning just because your nipples aren't used to it or whether lots of babies have a bad latch in the beginning, my nipples were a right state, I really hope that next time I won't have to go through that agony.

They should do some research into the pain actually! My friend never had any pain.

mother that's a good idea actually. If they really want to improve breastfeeding rates then I think that would be far preferable to yet more "proof breastfeeding extends life/cures cancer/increases intelligence" type research.

We're all different. Harping on about 'misinformation' about how hard BF is doesn't help the mums who found BF hard. It isn't 'misinformation'. It is their experience.

With ds1 my postnatal ward was horrific, and basically I had a perfect storm for struggling to bf. Prolonged labour, emcs, large blood loss, then when I got to the postnatal ward no one would lift him over to me and help him to latch. My milk took 4 days to come in, he had 13% weight loss. Nobody witnessed me feeding him ever.......... I had been referred to the breastfeeding support team. I met with the infant feeding adviser when we were sent back to the hospital due to the weight loss, my milk was coming in by that point. She said masses of skin to skin, and expressing to stimulate my supply. We got there but only through shear stubborn, bloody mindedness. It was horrific, ds1 wouldn't feed from 1 side so we used nipple shields to fool him.... Suddenly at about 4 weeks it all clicked, then the breastfeeding support team phoned. I politely declined their help as ds was gaining weight well, and feeding was now painless and going well. We fed till he was 18 months.
dd1 is now 9 weeks old, different hospital and vastly different experience. Lots of skin to skin encouraged, I had a vbac which helped. Even after we got up to the postnatal staff were checking on us a few times during the night. The next morning I saw the feeding advisor who watched a full feed. My milk wasn't the fastest to come in, but it did on day 2. Once I was home I received a call from the feeding support team offering to come out that day. I declined as things were going well.
It annoys me that when I needed support I got none, but clearly the support is available.

trifle exactly.

I had absolutely no idea how hard it would be and in fact had the impression it would be "natural", convenient, cheap and easy

I found it bloody hard. Which came as a huge shock! Frankly I wish I'd had some of that "misinformation" so I'd been a bit more prepared.

I thought it was to do with freedom of movement of the tongue, the palette and the size of the mouth.

Where the tongue has free movement, the palette is appropriately formed (not high), and the baby is a big enough size (not prem) there is a good chance you will feed without pain.

Where there is a tongue tie the tongue cannot freely move against the breast so pinching occurs (painful). Where there is a high palette the breast moves around in the latch so the baby pushes harder to get a hold to compensate (painful). Where the babies mouth is small they struggle to get enough breast in therefore pinching (painful). There are also a host of other problems prem babies can experience such as struggling to latch etc.

Unfortunately there is some evidence tongue tie and high palette are related so women who suffer pain may well suffer quite severe pain.

We are still in a situation where some HCPs dispute the existence of tongue tie or that it can affect breastfeeding. That has to stop. Why that hasn't been stamped out is a mystery (surely a memo to all staff saying 'tongue tie exists, HTH' can't be expensive).

The reality is that woman of a lower socioeconomic group are more likely to formula feed. The posters are for them to get them to consider breastfeeding. I bet if you go to a deprived area you'll also find the breastfeeding support is pretty good. Being put up in surgeries in posh areas is just a might as well seeing as we're printing a load anyway.

The NHS is basically expecting naice middle class women to fund their own breastfeeding support. But not telling us. Which is why so many women don't breastfeed successfully with their first but do with subsequent children - because they go out and seek out advice, and often pay for it, themselves once they realise they need to. The NHS should just be honest with us about it, but of course they can't because it's privatisation by the back door.

I wish there had been information and support to mix feed rather than its one or the other tbh.

My DS wouldn't latch and the birth was difficult with us in hospital for 4 days afterwards. By day 3 he was on formula because he was still refusing to latch on and even with formula he was hardly taking anything. Turns out he had temporarily hypothyroidism which meant he had no appetite and we basically had to force feed him for the first month.

The health professionals attitude was once he'd had formula there was no point trying to BF anymore and it was so hard that I didn't try anymore. I wish I'd had more support to express or to keep trying with BF so he could have mixed fed once his appetite improved after 4 weeks.

I was fully aware of the Breast is Best message - you can't miss it! But more actual on the ground support would have been far more helpful than posters.

I think it depends where you live. I had lots of support as I really struggled at first. Thet even came out on a Sunday to help me. I managed 11 months. However, it really worked for my family. Breast isn't best if it is detrimental to the wellbeing of the mother or family as a whole.
As long as babies are fed be it with breast milk or formula, it doesn't matter.

My hospital looked for a tongue tie (DD had one but they said it was minor) but they completely failed to look for a fucking lip tie. This affected her ability to get my milk out, which in turn affected my supply, so I switched to FF at 3 months. All I remember from the bfing days was crying (both her's and mine) and no sleep. At least once she was FF I could enjoy my baby.

I agree with the OP. Forget about pushing the message breast is best and look at how to help women to continue.

I never got convinced by any posters, but at the hospital I had DS at, it was always just assumed that I would be breastfeeding. I hadn't really been around a lot of new mothers, and was an only child, and as a child the new parents I did see all seemed to bottle feed, so never really thought about feeding either way, so the midwives just making the assumption that I would breastfeed worked well, because I was just 'well, ok then'. Too much propaganda would probably have put me off, but the simple assumption that I'd be giving breastfeeding a go worked for me.

Totally agree that more support is needed immediately post natal. My son wouldn't latch at all following a traumatic birth. I kept asking for help but no one seemed to have enough time to spend with me, I just kept getting told not to worry. On the second night he still hadn't peed or taken any more than a couple of drops that I managed to squeeze into his mouth. He was screaming and it took me completely breaking down in tears at 2am before they brought me the breastpump I'd been promised 8 hours before. By this point I was desperately worried that he was dehydrated so I asked for formula which they were only too happy to give me as it meant he did a pee and I could leave the hospital.

At home we've still not completely got the hang of breastfeeding so I'm almost completely exclusively pumping which is exhausting but I feel too guilty to stop as he's only 4 weeks old.

Completely agree that the money would be better spent on support than shiny posters. I believe the vast majority of women are happy to try breastfeeding. But a number of those who try are unsuccessful and this is likely a greater number than those that don't intend to but change their mind after seeing a breast is best poster. I distinctly remember being told about how wonderful and natural it is; how the baby is placed on mums chest after birth, makes his/her own way over to the nipple, latches on and starts feeding. IF ONLY! After 10 weeks of trying, failing and expressing I finally moved to formula (and cried because I felt like I'd failed my baby). Mums to be need more information about how hard it is and where they can get support if they are struggling - not lovely fluffy posters about how wonderful it is and how terrible you are if you can't do it.

These posters are literally just a sheet with facts on them. They are not put up to shame formula feeders. The only person putting emotion into them in the person reading them. Stop demonising breastfeeders as being judgemental just because they were lucky to have a good breastfeeding experience. I support your choice to formula feed, I've never met a breastfeeder who didn't but the more we paint breastfeeders as the "breastfeeding nazis" the less people will ask them for advice if struggling or thinking about breastfeeding for fear of being judged when it's not true.

agruffalo who was that post aimed at? The last few people have been describing their personal experiences and I didn't see anything about breastfeeding Nazis?

Also while some on this thread have complained about HCPs relentlessly pushing breastfeeding, there have been hardly any posts about breastfeeders being judgemental?

Actually I don't feel I've ever been judged by another mum for formula feeding, and if I had that would be a completely different issue anyway. This thread is not about that.

That is the NHS line, yes. When I had to formula feed my first I wouldn't have looked at that poster and wished it wasn't there just because I couldn't breastfeed. Support all feeding options, not just your own.