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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stop throwing the balls back over the fence?

453 replies

Danielsss · 26/08/2016 00:41

Those bloody balls. The kids next door constantly play ball games, the balls always go over our fence! We would always get a knock on the door, every 2 minutes. I ended up saying if just throw it back over, it's still as frequent!!! How do I stop this? HmmConfused

OP posts:
WankersHacksandThieves · 04/09/2016 09:33

Francis, step away from the thread and find one with real people on it. Brew

LittleCandle · 04/09/2016 09:34

My goodness, Math, you say you aren't the police? Well, you've certainly been the behaviour police on this thread.

You clearly have no idea about MH issues if you think a constantly ringing doorbell is not harassment. Even a person who does not have MH issues can find this irritating beyond measure. Children can and do learn to take the piss if they are not taught consideration of others and I am astounded that you have never come across a child like this. I am not tarring all children with the same brush, but more and more children like this are around as their parents treat them like little princes and princesses who should never have to bear the burden of doing what they are told.

Unsurprisingly, you also got the wrong end of the stick in saying we do not know our neighbours. I do know most of mine, as I have already said several times, and while I have no objection to having a chat with the little girl next door, I do not want her in my garden all the time. She is a lovely little girl, but the incessant talking is very wearing. As is the fact that she likes to kick the ball over into the garden because that way she can have another little chat with me whilst asking me to retrieve her ball. From what you have said, none of your neighbour's children want to talk to you, and you already expressed your disbelief that this little girl wants to talk to me. You don't know me or the little girl, but I think it speaks volumes in how she perceives me, and also the fact that your neighbourhood kids don't do this speaks volumes about how you are perceived by them.

Of course, there have never been any scandals surrounding politicians or celebrities in the US. Children never manage to get hold of guns and shoot other children or their parents. There isn't a section of your population who appear willing to elect a madman to be President.

Your inability to see anyone else's point of view is very, very disturbing. You appear to be incapable of reading this thread correctly or else you are deliberately misunderstanding because you cannot bear anyone else to have the last word. You have this vast experience of life in a very privileged area and cannot believe that others are less fortunate than yourself. There are poor people around - I know this and could tell you about the less fortunate in our immediate area. I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl, but you wouldn't believe them anyway, as children are never nasty and vindictive, especially if they are poor.

You just continue to enjoy your made up gilded existence, and let the rest of us enjoy our normal lives.

FrancisCrawford · 04/09/2016 09:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littleprincesssara · 04/09/2016 09:55

The moorhen actually liked eating the nectarine! It came up while I was eating breakfast in the park and I gave it a bit of my cereal bar (which it took right out of my hand), then it kept bugging me and all I had left was a nectarine. It ate a huge chunk.

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 04:28

You are so insistent that the householder pestered by the child has to bend to their will and adapt their life to suit the child. Way to go with the victim blaming. are you really so obtuse that you cannot see how the repeated harassment by a child could easily send someone over the edge?

Bend to their will?
You are completely invested in this language of power, and so are all those who tend to hold similar views to yours on this topic.

You have set up a situation in your own heads where either you or a child must win.

The stakes if the child wins are apparently incredibly high - a grown adult could be tipped over the edge, apparently.

Children must be defeated therefore. The 'adults' must win. Your mindset is adversarial and defensive. You have created this stressful situation yourself. It is entirely the result of a warped observation and resultant thought process allowed to run amok and take on a life of its own.

What you are engaged in is incredibly negative and damaging both to yourselves and to your communities.

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 04:29

You are fighting with children folks.

Children.

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 07:31

On to LittleCandle:
I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl, but you wouldn't believe them anyway, as children are never nasty and vindictive, especially if they are poor.
Are you saying that there are poor children that you know of who engage in anti-social behaviour, and instead of feeling concern for the sort of horrible home environment that causes them to act out you store up your collection of anecdotes to confirm your own prejudices? You don't improve the lot of children by recoiling from them and holding a grudge against them for exhibiting symptoms of mistreatment by adults.

You have this vast experience of life in a very privileged area and cannot believe that others are less fortunate than yourself.
If by 'fortunate' you mean lucky, then I am here to tell you that luck doesn't come into it. The area I live in is nice because people have consciously decided to make it nice. We have rolled up our sleeves and have reached out to find whatever we may have in common with each other and build on that, instead of hiding behind our fences and whatever tired old adages are associated with them.
There is a very affluent area close by and it is not nice because people there do not know their neighbours, people do not volunteer, people do not have a sense of personal responsibility for the fostering of a community spirit and do not apparently value that element of a community. The houses are expensive though. They are all sitting on virtual gold mines.

Of course, there have never been any scandals surrounding politicians or celebrities in the US.
I really can't believe you are trying to compare JS and his friends and associates in high places and the decades of institutionalised child abuse (that nobody has yet got to the bottom of) to any US political scandals. Vulnerable children in the UK were raped by a lot of powerful men for years, and nobody could stop it even though it was an open secret. Maybe the fact that it was an open secret made this thing even worse.
Meanwhile in Rochdale, vulnerable girls were raped by a gang of men for years and their complaints were dismissed by police and all the other adults who should have been in their corner. A dismissive attitude towards the voices of children society has tarred with a brush or two can be very dangerous. It can inform all sorts of really poor decisions by schools, social service agencies and police.

Children never manage to get hold of guns and shoot other children or their parents.
Weirdly enough, I am personally acquainted with an Irish family (related to an aunt of mine by marriage) in which the father returned from hunting, set his shotgun down on a table, sat down to pull off his boots, and was shot in the chest and killed by his own five year old son. Lots of British farmers have guns. Lots of Irish farmers have guns. Lots of terrorists in NI on both sides of political opinion have guns.
British children are among the most miserable in the world, with or without guns.

There isn't a section of your population who appear willing to elect a madman to be President.
Yet Britain is the country that voted Brexit despite that execrable Nigel Farage poster with the long line of Muslim immigrants. And Trump hasn't been elected yet.

From what you have said, none of your neighbour's children want to talk to you, and you already expressed your disbelief that this little girl wants to talk to me.
No, because I am at work when and if they are hopping into my garden (which is a shared garden incidentally, as I rent my home in a building that has three apartments). My fellow tenants and I (and the landlord) let them hop the fence because we know they would otherwise be waiting all day to get their ball back. I get back from work in the evening. The neighbours, their children, and my fellow residents regularly chat when we are all at home.
I expressed disbelief that the little girl is seeking your attention, which you claimed she was doing by kicking her ball over. If you haven't asked her directly why she tries to chat with you, this is only an assumption on your part. I also stated that she would knock for the next person who moved into your house if you were to sell.

You clearly have no idea about MH issues if you think a constantly ringing doorbell is not harassment.
It may feel like that, but to assume a child who is annoying you is deliberately harassing you is a massive leap. This belief reveals unhealthy boundaries - you believe someone is harassing you because that is how you have allowed yourself to experience it, but you actually have no idea what the intent of the door-knocker is. You just suspect the worst, and it all snowballs. This mindset is what I was talking about when I stated that it is not the job of children to be responsible for the equilibrium of an adult neighbour. Any belief that children are harassing you needs to be very thoroughly examined because left unchecked it can be very dangerous.

Even a person who does not have MH issues can find this irritating beyond measure.
Irritating but not harassment, and there is a big difference.
When you think 'irritating' you are taking responsibility for your own response. When you conclude it is 'harassment' then you are making the knocking child responsible for your experience of their behaviour and imputing to them motives that they may not have in order to fuel your own circular narrative. That is not fair to the child.

Children can and do learn to take the piss if they are not taught consideration of others and I am astounded that you have never come across a child like this.
I have not come across a child like this because children in my neck of the woods are empowered by the general culture and actively by their families and neighbours to solve their own practical problems. In effect, they learn not to bother adults with matters that are easy for them to fix for themselves.

They learn self confidence through competence. They also learn from the behaviour of the adults around them to be considerate - the adults tend not to be obsessed with their status, not to have a chip on their shoulder against children, not to have a pig-headed, adversarial mindset, and they are thus open to reasonable, practical solutions to issues that come up. The children are treated with consideration by the adults and they are expected to copy that behaviour and attitude.

I am not tarring all children with the same brush, but more and more children like this are around as their parents treat them like little princes and princesses who should never have to bear the burden of doing what they are told.
'More and more', eh?
Sadly, I suspect you see what you want to see, and by your chosen approach and attitude you create many of the problems you seek to prevent. You are invested in the top down version of relationships with children, how to teach them, how to treat them. It is a model that is based on fear. This is a model of adult behaviour that inevitably leads to a mental world characterised by antagonism, a stress-filled little bubble.

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 07:34

*No, because I am at work when and if they are hopping into my garden (which is a shared garden incidentally, as I rent my home in a building that has three apartments) and retrieving their own balls, because I am at work, and because they do not need to chat with me if I am home and interrupt their game.

PacificDogwod · 05/09/2016 07:38

Why do I get the impression that all these strong feelings are NOT about children and their balls, but about relationships with the adult neighbours?
People seem to feel awfully strongly about it.

WankersHacksandThieves · 05/09/2016 14:21

Completely ignoring the resident nutter....

Pacific, from my pov, I have a good relationship with the adult neighbours and mostly now have a good relationship with the kids. I've had to teach them what I deem acceptable in terms of access and asking for things to be returned. If I had a further issue then I'd speak to my neighbours about it only if the children were taking no notice.

I don't really hold with dealing with the adults about these things unless I have to. I am perfectly capable of explaining to a child how they need to behave in interactions and what is acceptable in terms of returning balls etc. I am not unreasonable in the slightest.

I view that the child would rather I spoke to them rather than going to their parents behind their back. It's not a case of shouting or yelling, simply explaining that they can knock and ask for it twice and if it goes over again, they'll just have to wait. I'm really not going to visit a neighbour and say that x child knocked 3 times or y child went into the garden without permission.

If the neighbourhood children were allowed unfettered access then the ball would come over much more often.

These aren't poor waifs with one ball and no-where else to play. I live approx. 200 meters (with no road to cross) of the local school which has fixed goals and nets, basketball hoops etc. in the other direction it's about 300m to a full size football pitch and play park with only local roads. When my children outgrew the garden for ball games then I took them to these places and many others in the local vicinity to play until they were old enough to go by themselves. These children also have bikes, scooters and all manner of other things to play with/on. including a trampoline.

prettybird · 05/09/2016 16:15

We have a few residents of houses adjoining our school playing fields who call the police when kids try to play in the grounds after school hours Shock

They try to claim that they represent the residents of the area by calling themselves a Residents Association - but none of the other residents in the area know anything about it (not are they complaining Confused).

Last time the police took off their jackets and played with the kids Grin

JacquesHammer · 05/09/2016 17:29

Why do I get the impression that all these strong feelings are NOT about children and their balls, but about relationships with the adult neighbours?
People seem to feel awfully strongly about it

Not at all from my point of view. I barely know them, they've seemed pleasant enough since they've moved in, said "hi", I've taken in a parcel for them.

But I genuinely don't want to get into the routine of breaking off from working to go into my garden to get balls back for their children.

I won't damage them, but I'll do a sweep once a day in the evening and lob them all back. If neighbours decide they're not satsified with that I think the onus must be on them to stop their kids lobbing balls over

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 19:09

From my pov, I have a good relationship with the kids in my neighbourhood too.

I have spoken directly to them to tell them they are welcome to come in and get their own balls. I have no idea if this has an impact on how often the ball comes over the fence, and you have no idea what sort of impact unfettered access might have either.

In any case, because they are able to hop in to get their own ball, it actually doesn't matter how often the ball comes over. The problem arises and it is easily fixed and I don't have to bother with it at all.

I don't deal with the kids every single time it happens, or daily when I get home. The middleman is cut out completely.

How is it outrageous, irrational or unreasonable to let children solve their own problems and give yourself the gift of an uninterrupted day?

The way you approach it, with your two times this and three times that, you are creating work and aggravation for yourself. You must be very invested in some particular outcome in order to put yourself to so much trouble.

WankersHacksandThieves · 05/09/2016 19:43

You must be very invested in some particular outcome in order to put yourself to so much trouble.

Maybe this phrase needs to be pondered on by the person who posted it....

and btw it's "math s "

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 20:01

I put myself to no trouble at all Confused. The kids get their own balls. There couldn't possibly be less trouble involved.

I told them the first time they asked that they are welcome to climb in and get their own balls. I don't watch them. I don't keep count. They solve their own ball problems.

What do you hope to gain by this approach:
I am perfectly capable of explaining to a child how they need to behave in interactions and what is acceptable in terms of returning balls etc. I am not unreasonable in the slightest.

I view that the child would rather I spoke to them rather than going to their parents behind their back. It's not a case of shouting or yelling, simply explaining that they can knock and ask for it twice and if it goes over again, they'll just have to wait. I'm really not going to visit a neighbour and say that x child knocked 3 times or y child went into the garden without permission.

The arrangement you have concocted requires a good deal of personal monitoring on your part in order for it to work.

Why are you turning something potentially very simple into a complicated arrangement that involves counting and physical effort on your part?
What principle are you upholding here?
Why is that important to you?

What are you hoping to achieve?

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 20:03

It's actually math, full stop. (Or period, if you will).

WankersHacksandThieves · 05/09/2016 20:11

I wasn't talking about the balls.

It's actually mathematics. Maths for short. No full stop.

WankersHacksandThieves · 05/09/2016 20:13

My system doesn't take any monitoring actually as kids are not stupid. They rarely kick the ball over anymore and when they do they just wait for it to be returned at some point in the future when anyone can be arsed returning it.

They've learned to play other games or something, I don't really care tbh, I can eat my dinner in peace regardless.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 05/09/2016 20:15

I'm sitting here looking at my lovely new fence and wondering why on earth I would encourage children to climb it or make a hole for a dog flap?! I'm currently sprawled out on the sofa in my dressing gown so why would I want children looking in through my patio doors? We're cat proofing the garden so there's another reason no one comes in.

We're getting new neighbours soon so may well have children next door. Hopefully the netting we're attaching to the fence to keep the cat in will stop any balls coming in but, if not, I'm certainly not having children coming in and letting my him out.

mathanxiety · 05/09/2016 20:31

It's math for short if that is my preference, and it is my preference. No S required. Both math and maths are perfectly acceptable, as evidenced by your accurate translation into your particular version of the English language.

You are still involved in a system where you have the task of returning a ball occasionally.
Why is it important to you to insist on doing that when you could equally be left to eat your dinner in peace if the children retrieved their own ball?

clam · 05/09/2016 20:48

Jesus Christ! WTF is going on here still?

littleprincesssara · 05/09/2016 20:51

No friendly birdies in the park today. :(

To stop throwing the balls back over the fence?
WankersHacksandThieves · 05/09/2016 20:52

It's not my version of the English language, I don't have a version. I live in the UK, it's our language. You have a version.

Additionally, we are talking about a situation in the UK, it's our society and we know how it works. I appreciate that in many situations and posts, it is completely irrelevant which country you are in and all posts are equally valid and helpful (or unhelpful as the case may be). However, in this case it is relevant. You could have posted and said something about how it works for you in your location and left it at that, instead you've chosen to ignore all the other posters and instead basically tell them that what they are doing isn't the way to do it.

Basically you are on a one man vendetta to tell everyone that they are wrong and you are right. Have you ever spent any time in the UK?

I can remember my bil saying to me when they were looking to rent a house in desert California and saying he didn't want one with a pool as he couldn't afford the appropriate insurance to cover him if someone decided to wander in and drown in it. It's not universal that the whole US is happy to have anyone wandering into their property. Going by local knowledge and the contents of this thread, it's fairly universal in the UK that people don't want people coming onto their property unless specifically invited and that they know they are there. It may not fit your ideals, but that's the way it is.

There is no amount of you disagreeing with people and constantly picking through their posts in the minutiae that is going to all of a sudden change the whole of UK society.

And additionally slagging off things that have happened in this country which are fairly rare and insist that things here are worse than they are in the US is completely ludicrous and doesn't help your case.

WankersHacksandThieves · 05/09/2016 20:55

....and on that note, I'm now bowing out and I'll leave you to your investment in the ball games of the UK and whatever particular outcome you were hoping for.

mathanxiety · 06/09/2016 05:23

That most certainly looks like a neighbourhood where children could go to kick a ball around, Littleprincesssara. It also looks like the sort of place you could easily get stabbed.

LOL at 'it's our language'.
Maybe the resident expert on slang would care to chip in and inform us about language and how it develops?

Of course I have spent time (considerable time) in the UK. How else would I have have made the observations that inform my posts? I also have friends and lots of relatives there (in England, not Scotland, Wales or NI though I do have cousins who lived in NI but left). My dad and my grandfather were officers in different services.

If it was so obvious to the OP that British society does things a certain way when children kick balls into other people's gardens, then she might not have asked what to do.

The answers were not unanimous by any means.
You certainly have your own pov, but you can't assert that the entirety of British society agrees with you. Many posters here thought destroying balls that come over was a great idea.

Your comment about your BIL's hesitation to rent a house with a pool doesn't illustrate anything about people's inclination to let children solve their own problems.

And contrary to the assertion that I live in an affluent area, nobody around here has a pool.

I am really puzzled at the umbrage you are taking at the JS-related remarks I made. What you said smacks of minimising what happened. The comment about British children being the developed world's most miserable was based on a recent study, btw.

I continue to be puzzled by the insistence on doing things the hard way. What is the payoff for you?
Is making children wait a random amount of time to have their ball returned important to you? If so, why?

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