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Original poster

Burkinis

486 replies

TaterTots · 18/08/2016 19:11

We've all seen the fuss about them, but last night I saw my first one in 'real life', which got me thinking. Also today two of my friends were arguing about them on FB - one against any ban, the other claiming they are a symbol of oppression.

My view has pretty much always been that it's just a different type of swimsuit; no different to some women wearing bikinis and others wearing one-pieces. I'd always thought the bans in places like Cannes were all about the culture/assimilation issue; it hadn't really crossed my mind that the 'modesty' might be being forced on women.

What do you think?

OP posts:
ohdearme1958 · 18/08/2016 20:46

cubtrouble you made yourself feel uncomfortable no one else did

Spot on.

MorrisZapp · 18/08/2016 20:48

Sorry but it's just not true that the pressures on a western woman to wear a bikini are even remotely comparable to religious tenets about supposed female modesty. In most UK swimming pools, the majority of women wear one pieces, and many don't give a toss about leg shaving etc, not one eyebrow is raised.

Even in sunny resorts, women can cover as much as they like, I've never I'm my life seen a modestly dressed Western woman get dirty looks for not showing her body.

Sure, there are toxic adverts about bikini bodies, and yearly yawn fest articles in the DM about readying ourselves, but you can do with that whatever you like. Unlike women raised in conservative religious communities who don't always have the luxury of informed and free choice.

manicinsomniac · 18/08/2016 20:49

me too 80smum ; they're gorgeous. Wish I could get away with one. Bikinis look awful on the majority of people, imo.

Why wouldn't anyone make that choice delicate ? I would. And I'm not muslim, I just don't like showing my body.

ohdearme1958 · 18/08/2016 20:52

I am for a burka ban, as those things are endangering women's lives

I can honestly say after 40 years of living in the Middle East that I don't know a single soul who died of a Burka

manicinsomniac · 18/08/2016 20:55

The danger with banning burkas is that it could just lead to many women not being allowed out at all, making the inequality worse.

CurlyMoo · 18/08/2016 20:55

Clearly no one would make that choice. It is oppression and it is totally unacceptable.

Thank you for speaking on behalf of all of the burkini wearers in the world. I'm sure your statement will make a difference to them Hmm

A lady in our local pool wears one. She is a doctor, highly regarded and I believe she has chosen to wear it rather than been coerced/forced by anyone. No fuss, she is there to swim like anyone else. A few people (who were men in their 60's I will add) said that "she shouldn't be in a british pool wearing that". Just rightly she took no notice. There was a women only swim session advertised, predominantly muslim women attended. The same people used that to argue that they don't integrate. Sometimes you just can't win.

Everyone should wear whatever they want. If it makes you feel uncomfortable then that is entirely your issue.

CurlyMoo · 18/08/2016 20:58

I am for a burka ban, as those things are endangering women's lives

Please could you tell us in what way they are endangering women's lives? In my time living in ME I never heard of any burka related deaths.

Aeroflotgirl · 18/08/2016 20:59

I don't agree with them, as they are part of their oppression and the misogeny (sp) within that culture. When you go to the beach and you see the men wearing western swimwear and the poor women are sweltering in a burkini, it does not sit right. I do not think for one moment, that these women wear this out of choice.

Andylion · 18/08/2016 20:59

Personally, I think this looks much nicer than a skimpy bikini.

There are more options out there.

ohdearme1958 · 18/08/2016 21:00

I've seen plenty of expats wearing one here because it helps prevent sun damage, or they just plain like wearing one.

ohdearme1958 · 18/08/2016 21:01

I do not think for one moment, that these women wear this out of choice

They do.

Aeroflotgirl · 18/08/2016 21:03

How do you know? Are they too scared to speak out!

CurlyMoo · 18/08/2016 21:06

The danger with banning burkas is that it could just lead to many women not being allowed out at all, making the inequality worse.

The automatic assumption is that these burka wearers have no choice. They are doing it simply because they have no choice. Whilst there may be some in that situation, IME it is not the case. Our university has an increasing number of postgraduate students from the Gulf States. They are predominantly women, here alone and I would say a quarter of them wear niqab (or the burka as some call it) They have no husband/father/brother/other male relative with them that could be coercing/forcing them. They said it is their choice to wear it.

It is a sad state of affairs when a woman who covers herself (whether that is tankini/burkini/hijab/burka) is assumed to have no choice in the matter. Not everyone equated freedom with the removal of clothes.

ohdearme1958 · 18/08/2016 21:09

How do you know? Are they too scared to speak out!

I know because I have better insight and more practical day to day experience of the culture and people than you do?

Am I correct in thinking you posted previously on Dubai Expatwoman?

ohdearme1958 · 18/08/2016 21:10

Whilst there may be some in that situation, IME it is not the case

You're correct.

UmmBum · 18/08/2016 21:12

I were a Burkini. Totally fine and with no restriction swim-wise. Keeps the sunburn off too.

The French are being ridiculous. The association is that choosing to cover ones body is tantamount to extremism is wrong. The point that keeps being missed is that 99.9% of practising Muslims are against terrorism completely. Time and time again these acts of atrocities are undertaken by non practising muslims who drink, take drugs, womanise etc (fine if that is your choice, but these are things those committed to Islam avoid) or unstable people in crisis or with mental health issues. Practising Muslim women do believe in the wisdom behind dressing modestly and feel Allah's commandments are very important to us. We are not about to de-robe and don a bikini because a man says we cannot wear them anymore. We will just avoid the beach or go fully clothed. Anyone who thinks banning Islamic clothing is an act of liberation is deluded. Any ban limits individual choice which paradoxically then is an act of oppression.

Its arrogant to think Muslim women are voiceless and cannot decide for ourselves how to dress. We do have choice. I cannot speak for every Muslim, but it is an act of faith, nothing to do with being made to or forced to. We want to cover and believe it is a right for us to do so. Live and let live. Where women are forced to cover by men, it is wrong - but it is the vast minority, in Europe at least. We dont need anyone to feel sorry for us because we cover, we would like women to stand in solidarity with us, supporting us to have a freedom of CHOICE.

UmmBum · 18/08/2016 21:18

*wear

SitsOnFence · 18/08/2016 21:21

As someone who burns at the slightest hint of sun, I'm hoping they really catch on here! I usually wear a longsleeved rash vest and board shorts on the beach as a full wetsuit tends to look silly. I've seen some lovely burkinis which look far cooler and easier to swim in.

That said, the idea that women should cover up bothers me. A lot. On the other hand, the idea that a woman should not cover up, that she should not be allowed to cover her body when swimming, is just as disturbing. I remember reading a news article about a man who got his pants in a real twist over a woman wearing a burkini at his local pool, and wondering what right he felt he had to see her in a swimsuit and exactly why he thought making her wear one would empower her more than making her cover up Hmm

Ultimately, a woman should be free to cover her body and free to not cover it. The burkini itself is a red herring.

underneaththeash · 18/08/2016 22:09

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IAmNotAWitch · 18/08/2016 22:16

I wear a Burkini sometimes. I also sometimes where a skintight lucrative wetsuit thing and if will be mostly in the shade a 'normal' swimming costume.

Tip it isn't the clothes that are the problem...

IAmNotAWitch · 18/08/2016 22:17

Lycra not lucrative. Nobody pays me unfortunately.

zzzzz · 18/08/2016 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SoupDragon · 18/08/2016 22:43

A ban on everything that covers a person's face is a good comprimise in my opinion - it's a legitimate safety concern

Why. Don't you think banning crash helmets is a Little bit stupid from a safety point of view...?

What I did have an an issue with, was the 20 or so women walking through Alton Towers with niquabs on. Facial expressions are a very important part of communication and by choosing to cover half of your face your are choosing to distance yourself from others around you.

So, you think others should dress in a manner to make you feel less uncomfortable rather than what they want to wear?

fromthebreach · 18/08/2016 22:49

80s mum that's lovely. Wonder whether we'll be going full circle back to more modest swimsuits for all. Surely things can't get much skimpier than they are now!

SapphireSeptember · 18/08/2016 22:54

Question, would the French authorities take issue with this swimming costume?

img07.deviantart.net/58bf/i/2011/184/7/0/victorian_gothic_swimsuit_by_lolikats-d3kvymt.jpg

I'm against the ban, I would love it if everyone would stop telling women what to wear and let us make up our own bloody minds. I absolutely detest showing my legs, there is no way on God's green earth I would wear a bikini! I'd much prefer something that covers my legs.

UmmBum I like your post.

Also, there are a some branches of Christianity that teach about modesty in the extreme, this swimming costume makes burkinis look the hight of practically, but that aside, would a woman be allowed to wear that on the beach?

modli.co/dress-with-belt-turban-hat-light-gray.html

(Swim dresses are actually a thing, and I don't mean the short ones that just cover your bum, I've seen ones that reach halfway down someone's shins! I don't fancy the idea because of the risk of it getting snagged on something. Something similar to leggings just seems safer.)