beans mash and sausages is a healthy meal

[madhurjazz]

Mother in law thinks its junk food. But the beans contain 1 of your 5 a day, mashed potatoes are just veg and a good source of carbs and the sausages are full of essential protein.

We often have ketchup, this has been shown to reduce many cancers like prostate, and a glass of juice.

Seems healthy to me and not junky.

DS (6 going on 3) has SEN and will only eat beige food covered in ketchup and mayo - even roast dinner with gravy. Attempts to reduce it have lead to prolonged hysterics, self-imposed starvation...The lot.

We are trying to reduce sugar overall - he's obsessed with it - but it's hard going. And sugar is everywhere.

I'm very anti-sugar, rightly or wrongly, but it's in most things, at school, at other people's houses...DH is of the 'I grew up having it and it did me no harm' perspective.

Unfortunately DS was raised by his birth mother until he was 4 and she fed him only sweets and fish fingers

It's going to be a long weaning process....

Luckily he is gradually responding brilliantly to fruit, some veg, we've banned coco pops and he bloody loves porridge instead! He loves full fat milk and yoghurt with honey.

But I often make mash and sausage and reduced-sugar beans and I'm really glad if he just eats it without meltdown. I think it's good enough.

I weaned one of mine at 5 months, too - he was rather active and losing weight rapidly (and stealing my bloody lunch!)

The other balanced it out by not being at all interested until 9 months.

Ketchup provides one of DS2's 5 a month :o

Egosumquisum, if you could see my DS2 eat like a little piglet at a trough I don't think you would question whether he enjoys food!! You are right, each to their own and if you find limiting sugar at parties/granny's etc and allowing a bit more at home but keeping within the guidelines then I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I find it easiest to minimise sugar in the place where we do 90% of our eating so they would generally have toast with nut butter or rubbed with tomato and a bit of olive oil (Spanish style). It's not so shabby! But if we ever were somewhere for afternoon tea it would be scones with jam and cream without question!
I do think there is a risk though of saying that things must be fine because they are traditional. DS's last school had pudding at lunch every day (he's on packed lunches from September). That might have been fine in the 50's when houses were colder, kids walked more and played outside for hours, they didn't snack between meals, food was just more expensive and less plentiful so people ate smaller portions and they burned off the calories. Now a third of children are overweight or obese and half of all general anaesthetics on kids are for dental work due to rotten teeth. When we know that sugar is a big part of the reason for all this it makes sense to cut it where you can without too much effort or hardship.

Emma - DS2 wouldn't touch nearly the variety of foods he does now, if it wasn't for a splash of ketchup. It didn't even take much. He's been at points in his life where he's eaten little more than toast. I am happy for ketchup (and correctly stored and cooked baked beans) to be a part of his diet as it means that he will now eat most meats (except chicken or turkey breast) and a wide variety of fish with his bread or chips.

He did enjoy pizza, which was great - until we realised that cheese was a migraine trigger for him - pale, sweaty, pukey migraines. Just bloody typical that his path away from a wide ranging food aversion would have obstacles like a serious intolerance in the way.

But when you tell a poster like Mrs Koala that she shouldn't have given her child a taste for ketchup, despite his history being right in this thread, then I'm afraid you sound like a dick. A massively sneery judgemental dick.

PickAChew: Well, I asked why, I didn't tell. If I've missed something dramatic like an ASD or sensory problem or that there was medical concern over her child's growth/weight after weaning in which case I would have assumed she might have answered my question by telling me (reasonably) to RTFT but alerted me to the underlying reason and I would have apologised profusely for not haven RTFT properly. Otherwise I still don't get it. I don't mean to be sneery but I genuinely don't understand why you would go down the route of giving a 3 year old ketchup because he had it once and loved it and demanded it afterwards. Personally I'd have let him get properly hungry and tried him on potato and some milk (or whatever 'normal' food I thought he'd crack and eat first). Maybe if he was still refusing 'normal' food after day two I'd start considering the options, but then that's a more interesting conversation to me because that sounds like a point at which I might be willing to try ketchup too. Obviously you and she are perfectly entitled to disagree with me but the vast majority of kids will eat most of what they are given when they are hungry enough and they know there isn't an alternative option waiting in the wings. I'm sorry if you think that sounds judgemental but it's what I believe.

And I said 'vast majority' because I do appreciate that some kids have very real issues that make getting enough nutrition into them incredibly stressful, but it's a far smaller number than the number of kids who have learned that they can hold out for whatever the preferred back-up option is, or not eat dinner and have a snack an hour later.

Sorry Emmaroos, I assumed you had read more of the thread (or at least all my witty and interesting posts .

Yes ds1 has asd and sensory issues. We really struggle with what is the right thing regarding new foods. While we are very happy when he tries something new, we are always concerned that because he is so rigid and extreme he will like it so much and then refuse all other food.

When he ate fish and chips for the first time I was pleased as we had never seen him really enjoy food past the weaning stage from 1-3 food had been to eat the bare minimum to keep you going and just for fuel. We didn't realise the curse it was going to be.

For 6 months he refused virtually all other food. Even refusing chips for 2 of this months and only eating fish. In fact it was the ketchup which was the godsend, as it became the gateway to other food. So sausages, burgers, salmon fish cakes, even roast chicken occasionally became easier to tempt him to try because we could offer the familiar taste of ketchup with it. We are now trying to reduce the ketchup (we also buy the reduced sugar and salt variety) and mayo and some days are better than others.

When he tries s food which he doesn't like his reasons are always the same 'because it feels horrible', not the taste, but the feel of a bit of ketchup often helps with this 'feeling'.

I know it isn't great and as a parent who loves her children just like any other, I would do anything to change it. The paed however thinks he has quite s good diet and despite it all he is growing and thriving (he is 110cm and not even 4 yet) so we have to be grateful. It could be a lot lot worse.

Personally I'd have let him get properly hungry and tried him on potato and some milk (or whatever 'normal' food I thought he'd crack and eat first).

The problem with the 'properly hungry' argument is that some of us have kids for whom letting them get properly hungry is a recipe for them eating fuck all.

My NT preschooler, who is quite fussy but fortunately has chosen a reasonably balanced selection of foods to restrict herself to, does not do well when allowed to get 'properly hungry'. She gets too hungry to eat, in the same way as some children get too tired to go to sleep. It's not uncommon. We've had threads about it before. If she combined this perfectly normal response to low blood sugar with a desire for the ketchup she's had elsewhere and refusal to eat until she got it, since we don't have the breaking with hunger option we'd be a bit fucked. We just got lucky she likes her mash with veg. You're being rather shortsighted.

That makes perfect sense to me Koala and Hyacinth. I skimmed through the whole thread and I did a search of Koala's posts on this thread before I asked - I really don't know how I missed all that, so genuine heartfelt apologies. I get it, I really do when there are underlying medical issues and I'm sorry if it sounded as if I didn't. I also agree with something Koala said earlier about the shades of grey with diet - you do your best in the situation you find yourself in.
The point I was (clumsily) trying to make is that there are so very many children without the same underlying issues as yours who have almost been been conditioned into having them around food because they have not been made/allowed/encouraged to engage with the full range of 'normal' food from the very start because their parents are terrified to say no and terrified to let them go hungry for a few hours. I think it's a huge problem here and in much of the Western world where the stats on child obesity and paediatric dentistry are so horrific. Not all of the West gets it so wrong though - traditional Mediterranean food culture where children rarely eat separate food from the adults seems to avoid it much better. As well as being much healthier for their children I think believe that new parents can make life so very much easier for themselves by not introducing the junkier options in the first place as routine options.
Of course if a genuine issue does crop up you deal with it as best you can.
I wish you well, I really do, and if ketchup makes it possible to get a broader healthier overall diet into your son Koala or your daughter Hyacinth then hurray for ketchup!!!

Thanks, but my DD doesn't have any underlying issues. She's just one of the many people who need to eat before they get too hungry. It's not a medical thing. It's perfectly common. My DB was exactly the same as a child, still is, and has never had any food issues at all. Just a metabolism on the higher side of normal -fucking wish I did--. It's not something you need to pathologise. That's kind of my point: some of the parents whose approach you're critical of will doubtless have children who experience this entirely normal process. Quite likely children who are NT and don't have any particular issues.

I didn't give my DD anything like chocolate, ketchup etc until she'd tried it elsewhere, as like you I took the view that there's no point letting a child know they like it (although this is not such a foolproof approach on second and subsequent children). I also don't necessarily subscribe to the airy MN trope of children allowed a little of what they fancy will learn to self regulate, because this only works for those it works for. But inevitably children will taste things like ketchup and crisps etc elsewhere, and if you have a child who needs to eat before they're hungry, you're rather at the mercy of what they're willing to eat. I am not under any illusions that my DD liking mash with vegetables rather than ketchup is a result of my superior parenting choices. Even though we are of partial Mediterranean descent...

Children don't snack at school either.

They do. At least at DS1s school. I refuse to pay for snack. He has more than enough food as it is with breakfast, a cooked lunch at school, with pudding and a cooked dinner at home. But he still gets given fruit. Those that pay get toast/crumpets as well as fruit.

DS has barely snacked in the school holidays and his appetite is much better for it. He sees all his peers snacking immediately after school and wants the same. He has little appetite regulation so can't properly tell when he's hungry, thirsty, needs the toilet, full up etc. The snacking culture does my head in!

We are partly Greek and they tend to not have these problems - as previously said, kids generally eat what the adults are eating.

However, as I acquired my little one quite late on in his development I have no idea how I would have weaned him - idealistic only eating the 'right' foods? Who knows.

No need to apologise Emma, I don't expect posters to remember or take that much notice of my posts! I should have said in my post but I mention ds1 having asd so often I worry I am pissing everyone off.

Greece has a worse obesity problem that Britain, I thought!

If someone is pissed off by ASD (in RL or here) that's very much their problem, not yours.

My ds will make himself sick before eating what he's given if he doesn't want it and it is a battle every single mealtime to get him to eat the smallest amount of veg - the only one that will be ate without complaint is baked beans. He was weaned on a wide range of fruit and veg and meals the same as the adults etc etc. When I am not ill and pregnant I cook lots of different things from around the world with plenty of fish and veg so he'd have a healthy and varied diet if he ate what I ate. I'm hoping it is a phase and will improve once he starts school dinners because he tends to eat better around other children and would eat more variety at preschool than he does at home.

I'd feel happy if I had dc that will eat a wide range of food rather than judging other parents because theirs will not, because it's shit and hard work and upsetting. If you think you can do a better job than me you are more than welcome to come and try!

I've only met one obese Greek. I don't know what the national stats are. In the last 20 or so years younger Greeks ditched Greek food for American style food such as burgers and chips so it's possible. Not the ones that I know though.

It's the rates of childhood obesity, rather than adult ones, I think.

The American style food thing has been touted as a cause of rising obesity across Europe I think. I've certainly read the same about France and possibly Spain.

Handbag crab...I'm pretty sure the reason most kids eat a wider range of foods at school or at nursery because they don't get given alternatives if they decide they don't like what's on offer.
I do have one child who will eat almost anything including the dog biscuits and another who is naturally fussy and very suspicious of anything new. There have been plenty of days where he ate hardly anything on offer at a meal. We give him small portions of everything so he can't fill up on the bits he likes (i.e. the bits that are familiar to him and safe) and leave the bits he doesn't. If he's hungry enough to eat everything he was given on his plate then he can have more, of everything. if not then he's done and there's nothing till the next meal. We also don't do any snacking to help make sure that they are properly hungry at mealtimes and because it's much better for their teeth and general health not to graze between meals.
I understand that if someone has a very underweight child there are sound medical reasons for a parent to be reluctant to starve them into decent eating, and I understand that if there's an underlying problem you may have to compromise and resolve it by whatever method gives the best outcome in that particular circumstance, but with the vast majority of kids missing a meal or two is going to do a lot less harm than allowing them to restrict themselves to an unhealthily narrow diet or processed 'children's' foods.
We don't battle over food, ever except occasionally with DS2 when he has eaten plenty but is trying to negotiate an adult size portion of seconds - if he were allowed to eat whatever he wanted he would gobble his way into obesity even on healthy foods. If someone doesn't want to eat then they don't have to eat, but the consequence of that is that they stay hungry.
I'm sorry you feel judged by that - I would say that we are sharing our very different approaches to feeding kids. My understanding is that you think the health risks of not eating at a given mealtime outweigh the benefits of letting the child go hungry and not giving in to the demand for different food than the adults are eating. With the proviso that the child is generally healthy I believe the opposite. I also believe that it's a lot less stressful.