AIBU or cleaners?

[Moominmummyzzz]

Background: We have been using a cleaning company to clean our house for the last three years. We had seven different people and all of them (bar one) left the company. The last five months, the owners (age 72, 73) have started doing the job. We employ them to come to the house two hours twice a week (4 hours a week in total). They have also done a deep clean of the house (8 hrs) in April. We pay £12.50 per hour so around £200-225 a month.

DH and I have a toddler and we both work full time. I mainly work night duties. DH and I are really knackered as we have no family nearby to help us. We have someone to help us clean our house for our mental well being.

Since the owners have taken the role, I have noticed the following

• cancelling the job at the last minute (like texting at 12:00 to say they cant come in for 12:00 noon job)
• charging us for days they did not turn to work (this happened twice but did not question it for goodwill as we have used them for three years)
• last week owner/cleaner was to do a two hour clean but she left after an hour but still charged us for the full two hours.

The owner/cleaners were suppose to come yesterday but they didn't turn up. We got this email from her today:

_
Dear Moominmummyzzz,

I have given the cleaning of your home considerable thought, and no matter how I try I can no longer contend with the state we find your home in each time we come.

I really do not want to offend you but when we spoke last you asked me to be honest, are efforts are in vane, the constant wiping of the sofa which is covered in dried on food, picking up stuff from the floors, clearing food and cereal bowls, clearing food and various other things.

Putting washing in the baskets picking up toys and various other things from the bath.

My staff and I are not servants having to clear up behind people.

You are a young couple and there is no reason why you cannot pick things up so we are able to clean, you have the capabilities of making your home a well kept and pleasant place to bring your little toddler up in.

Please take all this on board as being constructive. You are really nice people and I have enjoyed knowing you.

I put your key back through the door yesterday I hope you have found it . If I can be of any help please let me know.

-----
I'm just confused at this. It sounds like we're disgusting pigs but we are just a real tired couple with a small child. AIBU?

I agree with the pp who said the real problem was that you changed from being an easy gig to harder work. And instead of discussing this with you and asking to up the hourly rate they turned it back on you.

I've been a cleaner. I'd clean and tidy a house like you describe, but I'd charge more than I would for the old dear down the road in the immaculate bungalow who only wanted the cushions plumped and a quick Hoover.

As an aside, for your health you need to sort childcare. It can't be
sustainable looking after a toddler instead of sleeping. I think the other problems would go away if you get that sorted.

I'd not hire another cleaner I'd invest in childcare on your situation 2 or 3mornings a week you could drop toddler off and go home back to bed for a hour or two clean for an hour rest and then pick up toddler for the afternoon.

Your are not in the wrong here! It's just a bad fit.

I am a single parent of three kids, two with SEN and one a toddler.

My cleaners are fabulous! They tidy, clean, wash up, take bath toys out of the bath, change bedding, everything! And all without batting an eyelid. And my house is minging and very cluttered.

I was initially sent them through a charity that supports people with PND as I suffered severely when my little one was born. I think this means that they are used to all sorts.

People saying "you would clear space for a carpet fitter" etc - that's a ridiculous comparison, you pay carpet fitters for the job not per hour. When a cleaner comes, you pay per hour and you accept that their time spent tidying or washing up isn't spent cleaning. You are paying for a service. It's up to you to direct them in whatever way works for you.

That email was outrageously rude and I would be very upset by it.

Ask around and find new cleaners who tidy and don't judge!!

I would feel like sending them this (but I wouldn't dare):

"Thank you for your email and the key.

I don't wish to offend you but continuing with the spirit of honesty I feel I should let you know that on ... occasions you billed us for times you didn't attend for work and also in full when you left early. We didn't point this out at the time and paid in full anyway as it was a genuine oversight on your part.

I hope you can take the above on board as being constructive."

If this is true although I can see why you would be annoyed it maybe it's time for some self reflection.
No matter how tired you are there is no need for clothes not to be in laundry baskets. It's horrible having old food welded on to a settee. Why can't you put food bowels in the sink to soak even when you can't be arsed to wash. You have created a harder job by leaving food to dry out.

I never got this business of toddlers being so messy. One toy out at a time, put it away and then the next toy.

I get what it's like working FT and having toddlers, I've done that. It can be completely knackering and relentless but there is no need to live like that and then blame the kids.

Why not make it easy for yourself in the future and just start with a few routine tasks ( clothes straight into the basket or back into a cupboard) plates straight into soapy water or dishwasher as soon as eaten. One game or toy out at a time and gradually build from their.

been on both sides of the fence here. Surely the cleaner and yourselves could have had a chat about this without resorting to email!

Its not their place to comment on your choices regarding but maybe you could do a quick pre cleaner tidy eg....chuck stuff in laundry baskets and put on bed.

oops regarding tidiness/lifestyle

My toddler is am absolute PITA with getting toys out and leaving then littering the place, same with food left to his own devices. I have to micro manage him and am only able to keep on top of everything because I'm at home with him (and baby).

I dont get this cleaning up for the cleaner! Why would I hire a cleaner if I had to spent any time before they turn up to tidy up for them?

I would love a cleaner and if I got one I would expect them to do what I pay for, clean up the house which to me means doing what I do now twice a week myself. If their idea of cleaning in hoovering and cleaning up counters after I have done all the tidying I might as well save the money and do it myself.

Therefore YANBU and that is a very rude letter/email.

When we had a cleaner, I did do a tidy up before they came over - more put things away so they could get at surfaces to clean them, but not Hoover!

If you are paying for 2 hours and they aren't able to do it all in 2 hours as they have to tidy first, that's different to not staying the full time and not being prepared /able to pick stuff up.

Get a new cleaner, let them see it in a natural state when they come round, clear you work nights so there might be tidying to be done, and you understand not everything will be done in the time if they have to do that.

Don't waste your time hoovering so they can re-Hoover, just tidy up first, or at least put stuff in piles and tell the cleaner to clean round it!

How rude of her.
You let them away with a lot too.
I'd email back how they have let you down by not turning up at all, charged you for time they did not spend cleaning your home as they left early etc
Strange that so many employees have left their company. Perhaps they are not good employers - rude or strange.
A home with two adults ( working outside the home) and a toddler can't be that bad if the house is cleaned twice a week by professional cleaners.

I was planning to get a cleaner soon, because I'm pretty much at the end of my tether. I work 100+ hours a week, I have four children and my house is a mess. (MrZippy tries to help but he also works and has severe arthritis). Now I'm wondering if it's such a good idea if the cleaner is going to be judging me? It's hard for me to let someone in to my house like that, it does feel very intimate. It never occurred to me that the cleaner would do anything other than do what she could in the time, take the cash and leave.
My parents ran their own business and had to work well into their seventies. They really resented it and were as grumpy as hell with their customers. Perhaps there is an element of this going on?

Zippy don't let this one cleaner put you off. There's at least one cleaner on this thread saying the opposite, for a start. And I think it may be relevant that the OP's cleaners couldn't keep their staff either.

I think that your house can be whatever state it is.

However, you pay for a certain number of hours. If those hours have to be used folding laundry, clearing up dishes and tidying up toys before they can hoover and dust then that's what you'll get.

So either you have to do some more clearing up ( and that includes your DH, not just you), you accept what they can do in the time or you pay for more hours because at present you are understandably too tired to do it yourselves.

Non of the other staff that have come in over the years have complained to you. Sounds like they're winding things down. I wash up before our cleaner comes in and pick up toys. Mainly because I don't want her time spent doing these things I'd rather she concentrated on other stuff like the floors. YANBU.

I agree that if it's a job rate and the cleaners can't get to the 'job' without clearing a path then it's going to take them longer and perhaps the profit isn't there. If it's an hourly rate then they just do what they can in that time and it really is up to you to either tidy first and let them get to the surfaces/floor space, or have the tidying/clearing as part of the cleaning. If that is the case though it's important you explain that so everyone is clear re. expectations.

It sounds to me though that the owners of the business don't want to be cleaning and are probably going to wind their business down if they can't find or keep staff. I would probably need to reply to that email though as its so fucking rude I couldn't let it go.

Thanks guys, I am DH of the poster.

My wife is a wonderful woman and so supportive to both me and our stunning toddler.

The feedback has been interesting and helpful, our little one is off to Nursery in a matter of weeks which gives us time and space.

We won't respond to the email, rude or nor as we are better than that, but we must not delude ourselves that we are not on top of things.

Honestly with co-sleeping, both working virtually full time and little help bar one day at the child minder this is why we are in this position.

Thanks again for the feedback, uncomfortable or not.

I think you let things go and the cleaners have got fed up. Dirty clothes on the floor shouldn't happen I would hate to pick up someone dirty pants. I have a basket for upstairs everyone puts into that then I bring it downstairs and empty it to the bigger basket which I sort out. The dirty bowls should atleast be put in the sink. I don't have a cleaner but I wouldn't leave aload of rubbish out for her to tackle with before cleaning,this could of addressed this better with you guys so I can why both are at fault her. I have a toddler and I've been encouraging her to take her own plate out and pick up after herself you will find nursery encourage the same.

There's no reason for laundry to not go in the basket. It takes seconds. Even if you haven't got time to wash up or unload the dishwasher you can still put stuff by the sink instead of leaving it around, and if your toddler leaves food on the sofa wipe it up straight away. I struggle keeping up with housework but there's no reason to leave rubbish everywhere. Tidy up whilst your toddler plays or stick CBeebies on for a bit. Lots of us work and have children.

I think what this thread (and my own personal experience) shows is that people have very different expectations of what a cleaner should/will do. As I said up thread I have no problem at all getting stuck into 3 day old dishes as long as I'm being paid. I don't find it degrading at all But clearly others wouldn't be prepared to do it.

Best advice is to interview for new cleaners and be explicit in what you need done and that its included in the time frame you are paying for. Say that you understand doing tidying/dishes etc means the end result will be less impressive than if they were starting with a clear space. There really are people who will be happy to do this without any judgement .

I haven't RTFT yet but from the OP I'm on the fence really. I would love to have a cleaner but our house is too messy/cluttered and I wouldn't feel able to expect somebody to clean it. But I do think they perhaps went a bit far in the email. Not sure. I'm not judging OP at all BTW, we are horrendously messy, way worse than OP I bet.

If you do get a new cleaner, you should be very clear with them about what you expect them to do.

To be honest, it sounds as though you have been quite lax with them as employers - just too soft. You should have picked them up on their poor standards (e.g. cancelling at short notice) straightaway. Similarly, if they had concerns about what was being asked of them, this should have been brought up immediately and politely.

That letter is unprofessional in the extreme and tells me everything I need to know about them as a business. And it's not good.

I doubt you're living in a pigsty and if you're paying someone 4 hrs a week, that seems even less likely. You just need to find a better fit for your needs. Washing up a few bowls isn't an onerous or particularly unusual ask. Cleaners we have had in the past have been perfectly happy to both tidy and clean.

It's hard enough working full time and having little ones. Extra paid help should make life easier, not leave you feeling upset and embarassed. Good staff are out there - hope you find someone.

We have had several cleaners on and off over the years.

One of these was an older lady, and she didn't want to do any tidying or pick a toy off the floor, only flick a duster about. She complained to us that we weren't tidy enough, we let her go. We weren't very tidy, so she had a point, but we weren't able to clean and tidy to the standard she expected, so we just had to not bother any more.

We now have a great cleaner, but are much cleaner ourselves too, so it is more of a meet in the middle situation. Our cleaner will stack/unstack dishwasher, washes up if there's a few things left, does the odd pick up of a few clothes in one bedroom. But basically it is good enough for her to clean in most areas, and I do clear the bath of stuff, try to get dishwasher on and so forth before she arrives.

This company sound like they want easy clean houses and that's their prerogative, just advertise for someone else and make it clear you may need a hand with washing up as well as standard cleaning and that you are happy for time to be spent on this.

Extra paid help should make life easier, not leave you feeling upset and embarrassed

I agree with this.

I have never understood why cleaners are happy to clean toilets but doing a bowl of washing up is beyond the standard service. I just don't get it. I always say to cleaners now I'm looking for more of a home help that will do what I do for 3/4 hours a week, that includes washing up, cleaning and ironing and there are plenty of people who will do that for £12.50 an hour!

it sounds as though you have been quite lax with them as employers

Good staff are out there- hope you find someone

OP was not their employer and they were not her staff! She was one of their clients.