To not want to raise an Olympian?

[LeytonPolo]

DS2 is almost seven, he's been on his local swim team, a summer only team since he was five. He usually comes in first or second but they're more fun races than actually competitive and the pool of competition isn't that wide iyswim.

We've been approached by a coach that works for another swim team, who saw DS swim recently and want's him to come to a trial they're having for their junior team.

The swim team is in the next town over, it's a 30 min drive, it's much bigger and much more competitive, coach said kids under 10 are expected to do training outside the pool as well as two 2 hour sessions during the week in the pool for under 8's and the amount of sessions would grow depending on the child once they turned 8.

It's also year round with only a few weeks off here and their instead of just for the summer.

Coach kept naming Olympian swimmers that had trained there at one point or another as children, I know nothing about the olympics, so this really didn't mean anything to me but it's clear that it's a very serious team who expect kids to pull their weight.

DS wants to go to the trial, DH is more excited then he is, but it honestly seems like a lot of effort & pressure for swimming.

We have 2 teens, we both work full time, I can't even imagine where we'll find the time to make sure DS trains outside the pool or what that would even entail.

I don't want to go the trial and waste everyone's time if we're just going to turn it down but I really don't think a small shot at the olympics is worth it.

There is a reason places like Russia win gymnastics so much

Yeah.

It's called drugs.

Wanting to be "the best" in sports like gymnastics and swimming is really not a healthy goal for a child.

My nephew is Scottish swimming champion for his age group in several events. His parents both work ft and their lives are completely taken over by his swimming - many early starts, travelling all over the place, it sounds and looks exhausting. But he's their only child. He's just swum in the British championships and has a great future ahead I'm sure, but not without huge sacrifices by everyone. I think if it was my ds and he wanted to do it I'd do what I could to support him and accept the sacrifices. But I might think slightly differently with other dc to consider, I don't know. I'd probably let him do the trial and then assess it after that.

I'm finding the cynicism in some of these posts really sad. Don't tar all athletes with the same brush - making out that drugs are commonplace for them all

But we're not in Russia are we. I agree that if my child lived in Russia or China I wouldn't want them doing the training regimes they have in place there, but they don't. We have one of the strictest drug testing regimes in the world.

For me, if my child wanted to do a hobby that I know would help them stay healthy and encourages discipline and (as long as they're enjoying it) is fun I couldn't say no if it was at all possible. The stats on obesity are shocking and encouraging physical activity helps to fight this.

I would let him have a go - if he enjoys it fine, but if he ever doesn't want to do it please don't make him. I swam competitively as a child & teenager - I hated it. But some coach had sold my parents the story about Olympic swimmers training with the team and they thought it was a great opportunity. I now loathe swimming (and all exercise really) due to years of being forced to do it, to the extent I still have nightmares that I have to wake up in the morning and go to training.

All this '7 is too young' the sad reality is that if you do want to be the best, you need to start young.

What is the inherent value in doing one thing the best? Why is that better than doing many things well? Or, equally, being piss poor average at lots of things you enjoy?

dc1 wanted to do something similar and I refused. I refused because there was no way I would have coped with the 5.00am getting up. And also because, knowing my own dc, I didn't think he would have coped physically (ie he would have ended up with injury after injury). Besides, it becomes so encompassing that there is little room for anything else. I choose variety for dc1.

I have a family member whose children are swimming at national level. What she is doing is

• taking them training 2 hours most days, incl an early saturday morning (6.30am in the pool) and an early morning in the week (so get up at 4.30am to go swimming and then go to school for the day, her at work)
• regular competitions, more or less every weekend that taken them to lots of places. That often means staying overnight too.
• exhaustion on her part. Whhen you look at her, she is looking fatigued. And she will mention mother who collapsed from exhaustion having taken her dc to so many training sessions etc... So much so she had to stop work and never went back. Yes the guy made it to the Olympic but at what cost to his mum? And what if he hadn't made it to that level, lets say due to injury?
• all the family life is geared towards swimming and very little else. There is no time at all for anything else (and no money)
• Siblings have now all taken swimming and ended up stopping doing other activities (eg music, tennis). In effect, they haven't been given the choice as such (I suppose that it's better to be in the pool than waiting on the sides week after week)

In the end, yes it's great to go into a competitive swimming club. However, he is still very young and I've known children that age being completely put off swimming ever again after starting that sort of things.
Yes he will probably never make it to national level but if he does, are you happy to make all the efforts to go with it?
And again, yes, if he wants a chance to ever 'reach the top', that's when he needs to start training serioulsy.

But I wouldn't take it against you to say it's not your priority or that it will have a detrimental impact on your family/other dcs and this is not acceptable for you.

Erm moving on from the Olympian paedophiles can I ask a PP about this?

Swimming is one of the best sports there is, zero negative impact on the body long term

I always thought that was the case too, but then recently an osteopath told that in fact, swimming is very bad for the back, as you end up curving unnaturally. What do you think of that argument?

Btw, I think it's easy to say 'well my dc is swimming 4 times a week and my other dcs also do plenty of other activities'.

It's OK if you are able to pick up your dcs after school everyday and take them to diferent places/have a great bus system etc...
If you are working full time and don't come bak home before 6.00pm and you have to be out of the house by 6.30pm to drive half an hour for the swimming session and then come back home and put said child in bed...
All that 3 or 4 times a week.... (That was what we would have had to do if dc1 had gone to said 'competitive' swimming club)
I'm not sure if it's actually a good thing to do for the child himself. No time to sit down around the table for a family meal and a chat. No time to see his parents/siblings. On the go all the time.
That is as far as it can to be from the relaxed 'let them be bored and play' attitude.

Revolting - my understanding is that swimming is great for your back! I wonder if your osteopath was referring to the head up breaststroke that many recreational swimmers do? Swimming properly with the right technique won't involve any unnatural curving, certainly not frontcrawl and backstroke. Possibly taking a breath during breaststroke/fly but tbh I've never heard that before.

Revolting both are right.
Exercise in the water is the best you can do as no impact. That's why it's used so much in rehabilitation programs.
But some style (such breast stroke in particular) put a lot of strain on the neck. Not great of you already have some neck/back issues.

There is nothing wrong with aspiring to do you best or be the best in sport or anything in life. It's high goal setting and good for motivation.

op I'm a swimming teacher and at this stage there would be a little deck work if any which may entail small weights - but not actually a lot do this at seven. The coach has probally spotted your ds swimming with a flare and and a natural ease and thinks he could do well.

The talk of 'Olympians' is most probally a sales tactics as many pools feed in to national squads unless it's also an Olympic size training pool which some national teams use.

The training at this age will most likely be 2/3 sessions but not too much. It's only as they get older when it starts getting harder such as 4am get ups to go to specific training sites, this normally kicks in around 13/14/15 so you have a while yet.

There should be no early morning starts at this age or excessive training.

I would let him. 2 2 hour sessions a week isn't very much. DS(14) was a club swimmer until a few months ago. He swam 6 days per week but had hit the point where he was going to have to swim twice a day most days and it wasn't doable with his school (private school miles away and we physically couldn't get him to early morning training and then to school on time).

He's switched to the more casual swim team within the club (only trains 3-4 times per week) and now volunteers at the swim school. He's found that he loves volunteering and can't wait to be old enough to train as a coach.

There are other positive routes around club swimming than just focusing on competitive swimming. If your son loves to swim he'll enjoy the training, will be incredibly fit and might end up with coaching opportunities as a teen (well paid for a teen job!).

Can I just say to all the posters saying it's no fun for the child - I did this as a child, and I absolutely loved my childhood. I have first hand experience of this. I loved the exercise, the banter, the friends I made, the intense excitement of competing/winning. I also have a sport that now earns me a living, and keeps me fit.

I know there are those posters saying they hated it, but listen to your child, don't force them to do it, but let them if they want to.

mammouth breaststroke only puts pressure on your neck if the technique isn't right.

There should've no unnatural curving on the spine, swimming strokes are evolving every couple of years so newer techniques should avoid this

Personally, I'd look into taking him to a closer swim school, support him and see how he goes. Without pressure. Sport is good until it's taken to the extreme, which is what's necessary these days.

I'm involved with a sport which I did as a child and know kids competing at national level currently. Times have changed. The sport is now utterly brutal, training is far more extensive and long, hard hours. I know one particular 9yo who is doing four times the amount of training I did when I competed at national standard when I was 12. Pushy dad, pushy mum, pushy coach, sidelined sibling. It is frankly mental.

Two others I know seem happier (8yos) but the stuff they miss (parties, weekend stuff) is shit for them.

What is the inherent value in doing one thing the best? Why is that better than doing many things well? Or, equally, being piss poor average at lots of things you enjoy?

Yy

I guess all this setting of asourational goals is part of our ugly strivers vs shirkers culture.

Hence children having "no chance" in life if parents don't grasp every opportunity for their child to maybe, one day, be "the best" at something.

When I said 7 is too young, I was meaning 7 is far too young to commit to one sport only. It's a fallacy that you need to start early to be the best. Only a few once in a generation athletes play one sport from very young and maintain it through to retirement. Probably Tiger Woods is the only one I can think of. Other athletes frequently talk about how varied their sporting childhood was. For example Federer was relatively late to tennis playing other sports such as basketball.

In terms of elite sport, even swimming, there is no difference between really committing at 10 vs 7 in terms of the pros vs cons. If he's champion material there's no rush at 7. However it has been well documented that earlier single sport commitment is associated with higher rates of burn out and failure of adult participation. Most research done in USA around American football, baseball etc. Many top college coaches over there look for well-rounded athletes first, because single sport-focused young people tend to be less able to cope with failure.

My DSD (9) lives with us full time, is very talented at a sport and does a huge amount of training. She is considered serious team GB material and it is both a blessing and a curse. Our family schedule revolves around her training, and there are another 3 children to consider. She goes to bed after 10pm at least 2 school nights per week, often leaving her tired at school and us with no "adult time" in the evenings. To be frank, it is a burden, however as she is so good we feel she should be able to give it a serious shot. Life would be a lot easier if she were mediocre!
I'd just be aware that if an elite talent is uncovered, a pandora's box may be opened and your life taken over by either training, or guilt that you thwarted his chances. Sorry.

*Yeah.

It's called drugs.

Wanting to be "the best" in sports like gymnastics and swimming is really not a healthy goal for a child.*

I was coaching at a time when at my sister's club they had a female senior team who were ranked in the top 6 in the Country. They also had the British male number 1 (who went on to become part of Cirque du Soleil - Google Paul Bowler) and male number 3 (who was the first gymnast to ever compete with a triple somersault dismount from the high bar and from a quick google, Marvin Campbell is now earning a living as a stuntman and worked on Skyfall).

There were never, ever, ever any drugs. At all. Full stop. To the point that anyone not competing in a national/international event was allowed to use Deep Heat or similar as it masked injury and put long term potential at risk. They were told to rest. And none of the coaches were paedophiles either.

Yes, there have been questions over some of the former Soviet country gymnasts and the regime in China for training is questionable at best. But it's interesting isn't it, that Britain now has some of the best gymnasts in the world.

Because they work bloody hard and if they didn't want to do it (and have parents/family who support that) they wouldn't. About 80% of children who train drop out between age 10-14 because it doesn't fit with whatever else they want to do. A shame. Talent lost. But in the UK it is a choice.

In some sports, swimming and gymnastics being the two I know the most about, then you have to start young. I'm very glad that gymnastics changed the youngest age limit to 16 a few years back as it does give the girls more time.

I want both of my children to aim to be the best they can in whatever they choose whether that's a sport/a study or even fucking Minecraft.

I have a genuine question, although it may sound a bit .

What is the point of becoming an athlete? I can see how you'll learn life-enhancing skills about time management, dedication, managing a team (perhaps) and so on, and I find it very impressive to watch them compete against each other at events such as the Olympics. But is there a net benefit to society in encouraging huge numbers of people to obsess about their performance to this degree? I go running, and it's fun and keeps me fit. But the amateurs who obsess over their runs and monitor them relentlessly come across as self-absorbed; I can only imagine what a professional athlete would be like in this regard.

I think this is something I will have to confront within myself, as DS1 is ridiculously physically adept (strangers have commented on it) and I can see that he could be an excellent athlete based on innate ability alone. However I struggle with the idea of him following a career path that seems so risky (in terms of random injury = career down toilet) and seems to encourage such a high degree of obsessing over your physical self. And what are you meant to do once you're physically past it? People used to qualify in some other field and also participate in high-level sport (a few doctors as Welsh rugby players) and AFAIK some still do (e.g. Ceri Sweeney, Welsh rugby player with a biochemistry degree). However I don't know whether it is standard to have a back-up plan any more.

Bit of random musing there; it's not my intention to offend anyone but I honestly struggle to understand why being an athlete is an attractive career path.

Dutch this wasn't my experience. Our local swimming club has kids aged 8yo swimming 4 times a week, one them being a 7.00am start on a saturday.
They do weight training at that age too.

My relative children were swimming with that sort of schedule too by that age too. The limit her mum had was no more than 10 (!!) hours a week before they are 10~11yo.

But dc1 was swimming only 1h00 twice a week in our small, not really competitive club.
What you are describing sounds more like our small local swimming club than the competitive, let's train an Olympian, ones we have around.

No doin that's just your take on it and it sounds a bit like sour grapes.

Most level headed normal parents will notice if their child has a talent and enjoys something and will explore it further- that's all it is.

I just don't understand parents who dont want to find what their kids are good at singing, dancing, drawing, cooking, sports ect ..

It's just bog standard encouragement

LaContessa I don't think it's as much a 'career path' (which as you say is nowhere near easy) but

• the pleasure you take in the activity
• learning to set goals to yourself, learn with setbacks but bounce back train again
• learning the slow grinding work of training everyday to acheive xxx

I've met a few athletes, one of which has actually gone to world championship and the Olympics. That person is now doing something that has nothing to do with that sport. But it's also someone who has no regret at all of spending so many hours training when she was a teenager.

It is a good question though. Is what you are getting from doing that sort of training at that level worth the inability to do a lot of other things when you are a child/teenager?

Wow, some absolutely ridiculous responses here.

Not wanting your child to swim for hours every week, to the detriment of the rest of the family, aged SEVEN, is not lazy or unambitious. Nor is it selfish.

At seven I want my child to have a holistic education, to have lots of fun playing out with his friends, to do a reasonable amount of physical activity (tree climbing, cartwheels etc) and to be happy and relaxed. He has his whole life to 'focus' and achieve 'his' not his pushy parents' dreams.

I don't think spending all your free time at seven training in and out of a pool is remotely emotionally healthy.

And no, I'm not prepared to spend the entirety of my free time driving him to a pool across the county because he wants to do it. Seven year olds want to,do a lot of things. It doesn't mean as parents that we can't decide that it's not fair on the rest of the family (including the adults)