If he doesn't want a baby, you shouldn't seek CSA

[NeedACleverNN]

Why the hell is this line still trotted out?

I've even seen it on here. Woman falls pregnant, boyfriend doesn't want it and wants an abortion. She doesn't. People advise her to keep the baby and let him go. Don't bother seeking child maintenance because he didn't want the baby in the first place.

No!! If he didn't want a baby he should take his own precautions to preventing pregnancy. You don't like condoms? You don't have sex!

acquettaWoodville

My post was responding to statements made by other posters on this thread, I did NOT make any of them up. Read the thread!

The only statement I added a time frame to was BF, which is different for every woman. So I googled it and some women do breastfeed for several years. How is that a straw man argument?

My partners dad had 30 children with all sorts of women. When he left his mum he would only show up now and then. He saw him for the first time in years a few years ago. Women do have it harder and she tried to find a father figure replacement all she met were dick heads.

This is back in the 60's and 70's when there was no benefits or CSA.

all she met were dick heads and yet she had babies with him. That's the bit I dont get?

One I can understand but 30?

He was handsome and charming and I don't think she knew at the time. Men can carry on having children up to there 60s or 70s. You know how women talk she most probably found out that way. She weren't that long in this country when she met him.

I don't think you read my post properly she met dick heads after the father left. Do you think it's her fault?

mathsmum314 , you seem to have very little practical understanding of the mechanics of breastfeeding. The fact that you had to use google to learn that some women breastfeed their children for several years gives it away. Sorry, but I am really not sure you should be pronouncing recommendations in areas where you have little relevant knowledge.

She done very well on her own she had a good career as a nurse. She didn't need a man to help her out financially. She had 3 jobs and could work anywhere. She is a strong woman and now she is in her 70s with a good pension. She breastfed all her children.

How constructive

What exactly do you think you added to the discussion with your pages and pages of irrelevant evo-psych mansplaining?

*all its thrown up is men need not be dicks.

How constructive.*

I think that is very constructive. Given the stats quoted just above, the concept of men not being dicks seems a great starting point for children not living without support from their fathers. It would be highly constructive if men decided not to be dicks and instead actually pay to rear their children.

Way more constructive than some sort of free pass for men who don't want children despite conceiving them ... because otherwise you would have the appalling vista of a bad woman trying to force a hapless man into paying for (his own) child because she didn't have an abortion because she is a bad woman etc etc etc. Oh and fuck the needs of the actual child in all this.

It is astonishing to me that people are actually having a discussion in which they are defending the concept of a it being just great for many children to be left without any legal rights to support from one parent. At the moment many children are left without any actual support from one parent - mostly fathers (those are the statistics before people start telling me all about their husband's evil ex wife who left the children - yeah of course but that is not the norm) but to think there are some people who actually want to enshrine this reality into law?? Beggars belief.

Oh, don't be a trombone, VoD.

"Some women need to be a bit pickier who they have sex with!"

My post was in response to this one (correcting Alex for sex), which I see you haven't bothered to take issue with.

Canyouforgiveher is right though: since 90% of lone parents are women, if those men who are dicks about paying child support cease and desist from being dicks, there will be a lot more kids being supported, as is right and proper. (Ditto for any women being birth canals about paying child support, natch.)

yet more comments and still people think men should opt out of responsibilities.

how about this - You drive a car and then you have an accident due to your carelessness. You call up the insurance company and demand to sign a deceleration stating your intent was never to have an accident and you didn't mean it and because you've called to sign the form within X weeks you are no longer responsible. After all your premiums will go up and your financial responsibility is going to be greater and that's the last thing you need

Reasonable? no, its bloody ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as any suggestion that any person gets to opt out of something that has the possibility of changing and affecting the lives of except themselves.

as for the survival instincts to reproduce. I call bullshit.

Yes, we humans have instincts but guess what? we have at least 40,000 years of sustained progress where we have developed our critical thinking skills though with some posters on this thread I am dubious and we have the ability to forward plan. We may share 98% of our genes with apes but we also share at least 90% with a cat, 80% with a cow and 60% with a flippin fruit fly. It the differences that make us human. The ability to think, to plan, to change our actions so they don't harm another and to have control over our bodies and those 'instincts' because our morals have taught us. Essentially we have a unique set of cognitive skills that set us apart from apes. So don't use the we have instincts and needs its just as much as an excuse as saying a woman wearing a skirt made me do it.

Well said TBCF. Great name too!

Many evolutionary psychologists argue that we have an urge NOT to reproduce, which is why humans, who can count, have concealed ovulation. So we don't work out how to have sex (the actual urge) without babies (what evolution dictates).

yet more comments and still people think men should opt out of responsibilities.

I don't think men should opt out of there responsibilities but back in the 60s and 70s there was no CSA. Women had to get on with it back then luckily his mother had support from her family to help look after the children. It still wasn't easy people judged you more back then. I don't know when CSA first started but its about time men stood up to the plate and supported there off spring. Men could run a-mock back in the day.

If anyone is confused about how many children she had with him it was 3 children not 30. He decided to share his seed. She most probably had no idea until after he left her that he had x amount of children. He carried on making children after he left her. She hates him so much he broke her heart. He was charming, good looking and had a good job he ticks a lot of box's for most women. I bet most of those women he went with didn't have a clue about his other children. He has a wonderful son who he decided not to go and see I feel sorry for him the things he missed out on. When my dp saw him a few years back he had nothing to show for his life. He spoke to his sister on the telephone who lives in another country. He never went back to visit him.

*He spoke to his sister on the telephone who lives in another country. For the first time

Forgot to add that bit.

well actually voyage men really do need to learn not to be dicks.

Men are more likely to commit violent crime

Men are more likely to commit sexual offences.

Men are more likely to murder - mostly this is male on male violence but when it is women. Men are more likely to murder a woman they know, their wives/GFs, daughters, mothers

And men are more likely to commit murder-suicides. Where they single highhandedly wipe out an entire family.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11342408/Are-men-natural-born-criminals-Prison-numbers-dont-lie.html

fullfact.org/crime/bad-and-dangerous-know-do-men-commit-almost-all-crime/

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/08/killing-of-women-by-men-record-database-femicide

www.womensaid.org.uk/what-we-do/campaigning-and-influencing/femicide-census/

So if we're going to discuss men not being dicks lets start with this lot because I am certain the above also feeds into the why when it comes to men taking on responsibility.

Interestingly the telegraph article highlights that family even if a father is non-resident is a stabilising factor in their lives and reduces the likelihood of them committing crime. For that alone, men should not opt out of their responsibilities. They should be made to contribute. financially at the very bare minimum because research has proven it beneficial to men to take responsibility and care for their children and that has wider reaching societal impacts than just a child knowing who their dad is and a mother not being thrown into poverty.

forgot to add this bit from the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22610534

"Just saying 'men need not to be dicks' doesn't help anyone."

Educating men (and women) that financially supporting your kids is a bare minimum. Police action - even a talking to - for anyone harassing a RP to try and get her (usually her) to stop asking for child support. Stop charging RPs to use the service. Start backdating any payments from when they stopped, not when the woman got exhausted with asking and went to the service. Take a charge on any assets, up to and including the state pension if needed, until arrears are settled. Impose civil restrictions on serial offenders - which may include suspension of other benefits, driving license etc (needs to be managed to ensure more poverty doesn't ensue). Community service or even imprisonment for the worst offenders.

There's some ideas for brainstorming off the top of my head.

Start from the premise that people are responsible for their offspring in the same way they are responsible for paying council tax and having car insurance. Yes, there will be a minority who still don't pay, just as there are people driving without insurance, but if there are consequences, society would be making it a damn sight clearer what is acceptable.

"But just saying 'men need not to be dicks' achieves FA. Though I'm sure it's cathartic. "

Oh for Christ's sake. No one ;just' said that. There's been pages of discussion.