If he doesn't want a baby, you shouldn't seek CSA

[NeedACleverNN]

Why the hell is this line still trotted out?

I've even seen it on here. Woman falls pregnant, boyfriend doesn't want it and wants an abortion. She doesn't. People advise her to keep the baby and let him go. Don't bother seeking child maintenance because he didn't want the baby in the first place.

No!! If he didn't want a baby he should take his own precautions to preventing pregnancy. You don't like condoms? You don't have sex!

AutumnMadness
To suggest a baby living and being bottle feed by their father is 'sadistic', is complete nonsense.

JacquettaWoodville
You can make breast feeding an issue but its just not, children have been bottle fed for decades without harming them. Care and money? Well the father is able to provide that equally as well as the mother. Men opting out of financial support is resolved when parents have 50/50 care because they both pay their own costs. It might also be better for the child in the long run to bond with both parents right from birth. Fathers would also get a better understanding just what it means to look after a baby.

Yes, forcing a woman to stop breastfeeding is sadistic. Giving men the right to force women to stop breastfeeding is sadistic and misogynist. Saying that men cannot contribute to the welfare of their infant children in any way but forcing them to stop breastfeeding is both child-hating and positioning men as brainless.

Given it's very rare for couples to have 50:50 care from birth (even fully shared parental leave expects one parent then the other to take it), I doubt that's viable.

Let's bypass the Breastfeeding point and say 50:50 care from the end of the mother's maternity leave. How would that work?

One of the issues with 50:50 for a 'one night stand' is that the parents may not live and work anywhere hear each other (unlike a marriage or cohabitation that's broken down).

The original question was about what to do when a man has sex, the woman gets pregnant, and he thinks he can say 'oops, didn't mean for that to happen' and then just wander away as if it's not his responsibility.

In that situation, I can't imagine a man would agree to 50/50. He's trying to pretend that he had nothing to do with the creation of a life and that he isn't responsible at all. We're discussing whether it's OK to expect the bare minimum of financial support, with some posters saying the man should get to opt out because HE can't decide to have an abortion.

Can you really believe that a man saying he doesn't want to give even five pence towards his child would then sign up for actually raising the child? If it were that simple, it would be happening.

And trying to force a parent to care for a child when they resent every second and every penny is way too harsh, for both parent and child.

50:50 from once the child is weaned seems like a good idea, but we're talking about a scenario when the man is pretending that the child doesn't exist. Maybe absent parents would suddenly bond - it can happen - but it could also ruin a child's life.

Sadly, from some absent parents, money is the best that they can offer. And if they've had sex then they should be aware that it could be a possibility.

Hmmm a lot of posters want the men to be responsible, yet when I suggested they have automatic 50% residence from birth the response was that a man cant look after a little baby. Of course they bloody can.

Upheaval and inconsistency can be distressing for newborns, not to mention this conflicts with those who want to breastfeed. It also means two lots of everything, which isn't really practical for anyone when it's not needed!

When it comes to the CSA, I have known several mothers who have lied deliberately 'engineered' situations to reduce contact so they get maximum maintenance.

Of course you have. Did you witness this engineering with your own eyes and ears or was it something someone told you?

You see it on AIBU, posters wanting validation of their refusal to let the nrp see their DC more.

Because often the NRP is dangerous, violent or abusive.

You can make breast feeding an issue but its just not, children have been bottle fed for decades without harming them.

What if a woman doesn't want to bottle feed?

"Can you really believe that a man saying he doesn't want to give even five pence towards his child would then sign up for actually raising the child? If it were that simple, it would be happening."

Yup.

BF is better for babies. Strong attachment to a primary carer is better for babies. Plus, since we're using anecdotes, the only man I know trying to insist on 50:50 from birth is an enormous shit-bag who cheated during pregnancy, accused his wife of getting pregnant to trap him and has consistently fucked with her head for months.

I am not saying 50:50 responsibility from birth will make all parents suddenly good ones but if that was the legal and morale responsibility then children could be brought up in a culture where men are as likely to be a child carer as women. Rather than the current system where its automatically assumed the mother cares for the child and man is just supposed to pay some money, which can be reduced if he doesn't earn very much.

Either you say both parents should consent to being parents or you say both are equal parents. Seems a lot posters want it both ways, to have the right give birth/abort and when born the man is automatically the one who pays and the mother dictates all the terms.

Oh you have to pay me because I have decided to breastfeed until 'my' DC goes to school.
Oh you have to pay me because I have decided not to breastfeed is sadistic.
Oh you have to pay me because I have decided you live to far away from my baby.
Oh you have to pay me because I've decided you will resent looking after 'my' DC.
Oh you have to pay me because I have decided you might ruin 'my' babies life.
Oh you have to pay me because I have decided its the best you have to offer 'my' baby.
Oh you have to pay me because I have decided upheaval and inconsistency might distress 'my' baby.
Oh you have to pay me because I have decided you are dangerous, violent or abusive, even though I had sex with you 9 months ago.
Oh you have to pay me because I have decided I don't want my baby given bottled milk.

The answer to all these questions are if you don't like shared parenthood then you shouldn't have had sex?

PinkyofPie Yes I have witnessed people working out if consenting to more contact would decrease their maintenance and then refusing it when it does. Then going on to remember an argument they had a year ago which 'frightened' them, and going on to tell lawyers that ex was violent.

MrsTerryPratchett babies have strong attachment to two primary carers i.e. both parents, aren't you just implying mother is automatically the primary carer.

Whilst a parent might be a shit partner that does not mean that are a shit parent.

Wow, maths, that's quite some projection.

The money isn't paying the mother, it's paying for the child. So all talk of "you have to pay me" is pretty loaded language, no?

As for the "you are abusive though we last had sex 9 months ago" - you are conflating two things there. After a ONS, it's pretty unlikely a sexual partner will be abusive. Many women leaving an abusive partner have been with them years.

I've no idea how many babies are born following a ONS vs to couples who broke up during or after the pregnancy, but I imagine it's a small fraction.

Yes there is a lot of victim blaming im maths posts.

I've no idea how many babies are born following a ONS vs to couples who broke up during or after the pregnancy, but I imagine it's a small fraction.

• sorry, I meant how many babies/children now in single parent families who resulted from a ONS vs those whose parents broke up.

mathsmum314, as I said before, you seem to have an incredibly low opinion of men if you think that the only way men can be involved in their newborn's life is to force them and their mother to stop breastfeeding. This seems to me a total failure of imagination and yet again prioritising men's desires over the welfare of children. Your equating of breastfeeding with falsely accusing men of domestic violence is just disgusting.

There were nearly 2.0 million lone parents with dependent children in the UK in 2015, a figure which has grown from 1.6 million in 1996 to 1.9 million in 2005 and then further to 2015. The increase of around 81,000 between 2005 and 2015 is statistically significant. Lone parents with dependent children represented 25% of all families with dependent children in 2015, similar to 2005 and a little higher than 22% in 1996.

In 2015, women accounted for 90% of lone parents with dependent children and men the remaining 10%. These percentages have changed little over the 19 years since 1996. Women are more likely to take the main caring responsibilities for any children when relationships break down and therefore become lone parents.

• government stats

I'm all for making men as likely as women to be responsible for childcare, but I don't think I'd take the audience of men who wanted to opt out even of financial support for their child as my starting point...

Parental leave and flexible working policies are available to both.

Some women need to be a bit pickier who they have Alex with!

Yeah Kilmuir ............they should also make sure the batteries in their crystal ball dont run out so they can see whether or not hes going to become abusive during pregnancy

Because a lot of them dont show their true colours until then,

Hey, I ain't blaming no victims. This is just a debate of ideas not a government cabinet implementing policy.

I am trying to contrast the seemingly unpalatable idea of having both adults consent to birth against what I thought (when child is born) was the opposite, both parents being equal.

And it seems to me the answers are hypocritical with some even claiming I am suggesting women are forced not to BF. I guess no one is actually trying to confront the hypocrisy. How can you complain about 'men' not contributing equally when your against the suggestion of men contributing equally.

Math

Your post was responding to a bunch of straw men you made up and no one said, such as Breastfeeding until school age and talking about abuse where there was no ongoing relationship,

If you want to have a real discussion, use real points.

Kilmuir

Some men need to not be dicks after having sex, which can lead to babies. Assuming you meant sex, not Alex,