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Original poster

If he doesn't want a baby, you shouldn't seek CSA

879 replies

NeedACleverNN · 02/08/2016 19:33

Why the hell is this line still trotted out?

I've even seen it on here. Woman falls pregnant, boyfriend doesn't want it and wants an abortion. She doesn't. People advise her to keep the baby and let him go. Don't bother seeking child maintenance because he didn't want the baby in the first place.

No!! If he didn't want a baby he should take his own precautions to preventing pregnancy. You don't like condoms? You don't have sex!

OP posts:
PinkyofPie · 06/08/2016 21:51

Hey I suspect a lot of people buy into the "women who trap men" myths and believe that shouldering the cost of child support means a woman will bleed a man dry in order to get her nails done or some other such crap, and this may put them off. I wish my DD only cost £240 a month! It seems to me NRP are getting a bloody good deal, yet they're the ones that are seen to be forking out for a mother's lifestyle like the OP suggested.

I do actually strongly suspect that most NRP males happily pay over their CM amount every week with little fuss or grumbling from either side. I don't think all single dads are tight-arsed penny punchers out to screw over their ex and children. however the insanely large outstanding CM bill of £4billion in this country should not be ignored, and the fact that some people are happy to increase this amount is what astounds me.

Spice22 · 06/08/2016 22:01

Completely agree with Apple on page one. When contraception fails, both should be able to make the decision to be parents or not. If the woman chooses to keep it, then she should not be able to force the man into it. That's not right. Apple said it better and I agree.

Spice22 · 06/08/2016 22:04

And I'm sure this has by mentioned by now (too many pages to read) but you can't say "don't have sex if you don't want children". Would you say that to a woman choosing to have an abortion ? It's all about choices and it's not right that the woman gets to make a life changing choice for herself AND the man.

twittwooery · 06/08/2016 22:11

Well almost all women ( in England ) do have a choice to carry a pregnancy to term or an abortion Pinky that's not misogynistic, it's a fact

PinkyofPie · 06/08/2016 22:15

Spice RTFT for responses as to why that would be a dangerous option

twit I'm not saying it's not a fact, but to say that whilst the baby has "foetus" status that a man can legally opt-out, is literally no different to saying he can opt out of being a father to a living breathing child - as that foetus has a good chance of possibly being a living breathing child one day, and therefore will be disadvantaged

HeyRobot · 06/08/2016 22:18

Pinky The 'out for all she can get' myth was even thrown at my mum, who is one of the most self sufficient, low maintenance people I know. I don't think she ever went to get a haircut and still had to put up with people insinuating that she didn't really need the little money she got for us.

LilacInn · 06/08/2016 22:24

Totally agree with Apple and twitwooery.

Some people on this thread clearly are projecting their own emotional issues instead of carrying on an objective discussion. Of course someone with an out of wedlock child by an indifferent and resentful sex partner is going to beat the drum that women are blameless, men are bad and must be made to pay for life. Not much you can say to people with such an obsession.

PinkyofPie · 06/08/2016 22:34

Some people on this thread clearly are projecting their own emotional issues instead of carrying on an objective discussion.

well pot kettle and black spring to mind. You e been asked several times to clarify a few points and are avoiding it with "women should have thought of this blah blah" without actually giving a good reason as to why men aren't to be held responsible for their actions.

I can't speak for anyone else but seeing as I'm married with children to my DH, no ther kids, no ex issues to "beat a drum about" I am not projecting. It is quite possible to care about others' situations without actually being in them.

Although I strongly suspect a lot of posters have a DP who peddled the "she trapped me" line about their ex and begrudge a few quid a week going out to their DP's offspring.

PinkyofPie · 06/08/2016 22:36

Oh and too right a man should 'pay' either financially (first 18 years) or emotionally for life a child that is his. Why the fuck should a child suffer because a grown man throws a tantrum because sex led to pregnancy?

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF · 06/08/2016 22:37

out of wedlock with an indifferent and resentful sex partner

Okaaay. So the fact that my ex told me he wanted children with me, and, after two years together, said that his son's birth was the best day of his life, but then after deciding four years later that life with an ASD child wasn't what he imagined for himself, makes him an 'indifferent and resentful sex partner'. He wanted our child. As did I. He couldn't cope with the demands of an ASD diagnosis and left.

Please stop trying to paint this as a black and white debate. The shades of grey in between are infinite.

Sunshineonacloudyday · 06/08/2016 22:37

I don't think men should have the option over what to do with an unborn child. Women have to carry that regret for the rest of there lives especially if they wanted to keep the child. It is very hard to move on emotionally after an abortion unless the woman is 100% certain she does not want children then she should not be forced or questioned. If a man is stupid enough not wear the appropriate protection or ask the woman what she is using then it is his responsibility as well. In America abortion is banned in some or all parts of America what does the man do then?

LilacInn · 06/08/2016 22:38

Pinky, you are nearly incoherent in most of your posts. Sorry but I truly have no idea what you are asking. I have made my position clear : men should be able to opt out fully in the same timeframe a woman can get a first trimester abortion.

HeyRobot · 06/08/2016 22:41

Of course many women make bad decisions, just like many men. But that doesn't have anything to do with the woman's right to bodily autonomy, or a child's right to a good standard of living.

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF · 06/08/2016 22:41

pinky Yes. I too strongly suspect that much of the vitriol on this post is spouted by resentful (and possibly childless) partners of men with children. Your 'man' should pay for the children he had. If he's telling you he 'didn't want them in the first place', then please be sure to use the contraception you keep bleating on about, and be even more sure that it doesn't let you down.

Sunshineonacloudyday · 06/08/2016 22:43

Lorelei I used to watch that programme about a mother and daughter I enjoyed watching it. I feel very sad for you how dare he decide to leave because its to tough. If thats the kind of man he is be glad you are shot of him all children are challenging. Whatever he is looking for it doesn't exist. Does he come and see your child and does he help pay for the up keep of your child.

PinkyofPie · 06/08/2016 22:43

Lilac can you actually read? My posts are perfectly clear I suspect you are dodging questions you don't have answers too. I am asking

  1. Why are you insistent that woman are responsible in every step of the ways for their actions in conception but men near no fault?
  2. You seem to have a thing about ONS but posters have asked several times what if the situation were a husband and wife agreeing to try for a baby, then the husband walks out and decides after conception he wants nothing to do with it. Does he also get a 'get it clause'?
  3. If we did have a 'get out clause' law would every man wanting to shirk responsibility be able to? Including husbands and long term partners? If it was just flings and ONS, how would they provide proof that they took the right precautions and it was in fact are non-committal sex-only relationship?
PinkyofPie · 06/08/2016 22:45

men should be able to opt out fully in the same timeframe a woman can get a first trimester abortion.

Also you haven't addressed the situation of the implications of the woman goes through with the birth in terms of financial impact, impact on the economy and possibly benefits bill and the health impacts of the child?

Or are women and babies just fair game, as long as the man gets what he wants?

PinkyofPie · 06/08/2016 22:46

Lorelei I do wonder what kind of woman doesn't see a man who being disinterested and resentful of having children and peddling the "She trapped me" line as a big fat red flag.

MerchantofVenice · 06/08/2016 22:47

In response to Lilac - I'm not emotionally affected by this thread (aside from being a mother). I'm happily married to the father of my children. I would not have taken any risks with sex with someone not committed to me or the idea of children.

However, I would defend the right of any woman to exercise autonomy over her body, whatever the circumstances leading to a pregnancy.

If a man badly does not want a child, but he badly does want to ejaculate into a woman, then he needs to act accordingly. This would include as a minimum using the contraception. It should also include an explicit statement that he rejects our cultural and legal norm which dictates that men must support (financially) their accidental offspring. If they don't express this rejection, then a woman is entitled to believe that he understands the expectations placed on him if a pregnancy (not desired by either, let's say) results. I would suggest that, if he makes this information known, he may find he becomes immediately less sexually attractive to all women and won't, in fact, need to worry about contraception at all.

LilacInn · 06/08/2016 22:48
  1. that question makes no sense. I do not advocate that women be forced into parenthood. I am extremely pro abortion rights.
  2. Yes, he gets the same timeframe to change his mind
  3. Yes, they all get the opportunity to opt out, just as married women etc can choose abortion regardless of what their partner wants.

Hope that's clear.

LilacInn · 06/08/2016 22:52

Merchant, I agree each party should be explicit before sex takes place and make sure they are understood.

"Just so you know, I won't have an abortion under any circumstances and will aggressively pursue financial maintenance" isn't going to get a lot of women laid either. But both should be forthright.

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF · 06/08/2016 22:52

sunshine thank you for your kind comments. No, he isn't paying maintenance as he has lost yet another job, and regarding visits, that's a whole other thread (let us down again this weekend). I just think there are so many single mums out there, holding the fort and trying to keep it together with all the financial/social/educational/romantic constraints that implies, while some of these fathers can live exactly as they want and parrot the 'I never wanted a kid, anyway' to their naive new girlfriends, who then spout some of the crap I've read on here in the last couple of days. There are so many nuances in these situations. Aaarrrgh! Rant over.

Sunshineonacloudyday · 06/08/2016 22:55

Can't a woman take a man to court if he doesn't pay maintenance.

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF · 06/08/2016 22:55

Lilac. Would it be impertinent to ask if you are in a relationship/have children? I'm just curious, as you have very solid views on this.

MerchantofVenice · 06/08/2016 22:55

Lilac, it would be fine for a woman to makethat clear - but it's not quite the same, as the default setting in British law is that she is fully entitled to do just that. The man should assume this, therefore.