Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

If he doesn't want a baby, you shouldn't seek CSA

879 replies

NeedACleverNN · 02/08/2016 19:33

Why the hell is this line still trotted out?

I've even seen it on here. Woman falls pregnant, boyfriend doesn't want it and wants an abortion. She doesn't. People advise her to keep the baby and let him go. Don't bother seeking child maintenance because he didn't want the baby in the first place.

No!! If he didn't want a baby he should take his own precautions to preventing pregnancy. You don't like condoms? You don't have sex!

OP posts:
VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 18:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 18:39

Lilac stop being thick, having an abortion is not the same as a child being born, a man is "absolving" himself of fuck all if he abandons a child that exists.

Would you like men to be able to dictate that that -
A) women have abortions against their will, and
B) women have babies against their will??

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 18:41

I'd be Hmm if someone rejected a termination on the grounds of health as they'd be signing up for the same or worse with birth.

Even mental health grounds? Some would see it as killing their child, and couldn't live with themselves. Can you see why they'd rather have a baby in this situation?

HerRoyalFattyness · 05/08/2016 18:42

I'd Hmm if someone rejected a termination on the grounds of health as they'd be signing up for the same or worse with birth

What about mental health? Is that not a health reason?
As for lilac they can just do one. Goady fucker.

KickAssAngel · 05/08/2016 18:42

How about the man is honest BEFORE the pregnancy, and does everything he can to avoid a pregnancy? Then no need for this argument about how many weeks in.
Because (as has been discussed on MN MANY times) a huge number of 'accidental' pregnancies are actually due to carelessness and could be avoided. Making adults more aware of the potential responsibilities that they could carry for life, might actually make people more careful about contraception.

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 18:43

lilac would you support the following as a situation I laid out earlier? And if so why do you think two or more people (mother and child) should lose out in favour of a man? -

  1. Woman gets pregnant
  2. Shortly after the father, be it husband, boyfriend or one night stand, makes the decision based on how he feels on that day, to be involved or not
  3. He can sign a declaration absconding him of financial and emotional responsibility
  4. Woman goes through pregnancy and birth completely alone
  5. Woman raises child on one salary, or probably no salary as can't afford child care. Possibility of being in poverty sky rockets
  6. Child goes through life with no right to know its father
  7. Father never has to worry about it again

Two people lose out, someone gets their way on the technicality that they have a penis

VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 18:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 18:47

A thought occurred to me yesterday when thinking about this thread - this may have been a comment made by viyage but apologies if it's not I can't remember and can't be bothered scrolling up

Someone said women have more contraception options therefore should have more responsibility.

That may be true, but only one option that's exclusive for women (the pill, coil, injection or implant) can be used at any one time. You couldn't have an implant and also an injection.

So actually it's a level playing ground - women can choose as many variants of contraception as men can.

And remember men can have vasectomies too if they're that bothered about newer having kids.

This laying the blame at womens door re contraception is just lazy and frankly obtuse

HerRoyalFattyness · 05/08/2016 18:47

You're spectacularly missing the point there voyage and you know it.

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 18:49

And birth doesn't carry risks of MH problems ? I think yo know it can and does.

Birth does, many women come away birth trauma, however I'm not taking about giving birth. I'm talking about women who are vehemently anti-abortion and whose mental health would suffer much more doing what they see as a "killing" of a human. Having and raising a human makes more sense for them. Why should anyone have an abortion when they don't want to?

BertPuttocks · 05/08/2016 19:08

Amazing isn't it?

A termination? An absolute breeze, even at 24 weeks.

Bringing up a child in relative poverty? Tough. Stop complaining.

But rolling a bit of latex on to the end of a penis before penetrating a woman? Bloody hell! How dare you suggest that, you man-haters? Hmm

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 19:16

Also voyage I think it's important to point out that giving birth is not always more traumatic than having a termination.

I don't claim to speak for all women but I can speak as one who's had both a termination and a wanted child. I have no regrets whatsoever about my termination and I'm pleased I had one. At the time I was a teenager and had no qualms or bad feeling about what I was doing.

However doing something I wanted doesn't mean it's an easy ride. It was painful, lonely and very sad. I was around 4 months pregnant So delivered my foetus which I accidentally saw. It was horrific, every step of the way, and not being able to talk about it except to my mum afterwards was awful when I was going through pain, bleeding and leaking breastmilk. I sill didn't regret it though.

For my DD labour was of course agony, far more painful than my termination, and it all went tits up at the end, leaving me in an awful physical state. However it wasn't nearly as horrific as my termination. The main factor being I actually wanted the baby I was giving birth to, it was a happy occasion that I could celebrate.

I can't imagine what anyone must feel going through a termination with even a smidge of doubt or regret. It's certainly not the easier option.

VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 19:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LilacInn · 05/08/2016 19:29

Pinky: Yes, I would.
As a woman, I think a man should have the same opportunity to avoid parenthood (after an accidental conception) as a woman does.

I also think that if a woman considers surgically aborting a zygote (of which hundreds of millions a year are flushed down drains and toilets naturally, fortunately for the species) to be "killing a child" she should be up front about this and should remind her sex partners of this before every act of intercourse, just to remind them what they are letting themselves in for should a condom break or be eschewed in the heat of passion. If a woman is adamant that only her opinion/preference is going to count, in the event of an unintended pregnancy, she should make that clear early and often.

VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 19:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 19:34

Its probably worth pointing out also that the massive majority of terminations, which are carried out in early stages, are less traumatic than the average birth.

Links please?

VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 19:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 19:41

As a woman, I think a man should have the same opportunity to avoid parenthood (after an accidental conception) as a woman does.

Problem is, when a woman terminates a child, both parties avoid parenthood and are free of any emotional and financial ties.

If a man did it in the way you suggest, only he is free of those ties. Now tell me how that's fair?

I also think that if a woman considers surgically aborting a zygote (of which hundreds of millions a year are flushed down drains and toilets naturally, fortunately for the species) to be "killing a child" she should be up front about this and should remind her sex partners of this before every act of intercourse

So, a woman should be upfront about not wanting kids and therefore taking precautions, fair enough, should a man not have equal responsibility?

If a woman is adamant that only her opinion/preference is going to count, in the event of an unintended pregnancy, she should make that clear early and often.

So you think that it's not fair for only a woman's opinion/preference to count...but it's fine for a man's opinion/preference to count.

Again, why only the woman who has to state her abortion opinions pre-sex?

Besides, this doesn't mean pregnancies won't occur. Are you so blind as to see that if you had your way of men singing away rights this wouldn't have a huge detrimental impact on the economy, many women and countless children?

But none of that matters, hey? As long as the men don't have to face up to the consequences of their actions, that's the most important thing Hmm

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 19:43

I know Voyage, and I know I'm a rare case, not everyone will see a clearly defined foetus. However emotional trauma is subjective, some may find a 6 week termination worse than giving birth.

Not that it's really relevant - women shouldn't have abortions if they don't want them, the same way they shouldn't have a child they don't want.

VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 19:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinkyofPie · 05/08/2016 19:51

Thanks for link voyage. One to pop in my bookmarks! However this doesn't mention any correlation between the trauma of having a termination vs the trauma of giving birth. I do think it's completely subjective, and most happening in early stages doesn't mean it won't be horrific for women going through it

VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 19:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LilacInn · 05/08/2016 19:56

Are you so blind as to see that if you had your way of men singing away rights this wouldn't have a huge detrimental impact on the economy, many women and countless children?

I would hope that the result would be that women would be a LOT more careful in their mating choices than they are now. If they know for sure that they cannot force a man into compliance, by law, and that they truly would be on their own in the event they decide to carry forth a pregnancy alone, perhaps they would be more selective and/or far more cautious about contraception. Think about all the stories on Mumsnet alone that start out "DP and I have been together four months and are expecting our first child and he is being unsupportive..." Who on earth lets herself become pregnant by a boyfriend of four months, in the first place? Not me nor any woman I've been friends with over the past 35 years of sexual activity.

Obviously in an ideal world both men and women would be vigilant about contraception and would be upfront about their interest in children, or lack thereof. And would only have children when they are committed, stable, solvent, employable and have a good familial support network.

But since it's not an ideal world I think the onus is on us women to be cautious and to face reality when pregnancy crops up, including the reality that not every fertilized egg needs to become a human being who will be on Planet Earth for the next 70 or 80 years. If I decide to bring a kid into a disadvantaged circumstance, then that's on me, if I have decreed that the sperm donor's post-conception opinion is irrelevant.

VoyageOfDad · 05/08/2016 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HelenaDove · 05/08/2016 20:00

A man wouldnt be keeping me hanging Voyage.

Im childfree by choice so if an accidental pregnancy happened to me i would terminate no question. No ifs.......no buts.

Because its my body my choice.............same reason why another woman may want to go ahead with her pregnancy.

Swipe left for the next trending thread