To be gutted that I won't be getting tax credits for 3rd child?

[GutenTag]

I'm just wondering what people's opinion is really.

We are trying for a 3rd child and I won't be getting any tax credits for this child as the government has changed the rules so that from next year tax credits are only paid for up to a maximum of 2 children.

I currently receive around £1k of TC for the kids and I would have received £4k for the 3rd if the government hadn't made the changes.

That would have meant an extra £250 a month. It's a lot of money for us. My DH works and I'm a SAHM. We have a £100k mortgage on a small house in a deprived area of town. We get by. We don't have much money left each month and I need to save literally for everything. I'm really really gutted. I really wanted 3 kids and this has meant that I'll be financially alot worse off now.

Of course I don't expect the government to "pay" for my children but it would have really helped, that's all. It would have eased the pressure off.

Just for the record we have never received any other benefits apart from JSA when DH was made redundant last year which was a godsend as we would have been homeless otherwise.

Do you think AiBU to feel/ think like this?

There seems to be a massive change in attitude towards benefits doesn't there?

A few years ago you would have got maybe two or three replies like the ones that this thread is full of and they would probably have been accused of being a benefit basher.

I find it interesting how attitudes are changing and I remember when TC weren't even really seen as a benefit as such and it was rare for people to say you shouldn't have children if you rely on them.

I used to post regularly on a forum based in the USA and they were shocked that we get CB to look after our children and couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that you have children and get money for having them (I know CB has changed since)

One thing is for sure, you would be pretty stupid to have more children that you need to rely on benefits to house and feed because with the way things are changing there is no stability from being on benefits anymore and it could all be taking out under your feet.

My situation is complicated and I don't want to put it up for debate but trust me, relying on benefits is not a good place to be right now and I can't wait to get off them totally one day. I am extremely worried about what will happen to us with all the benefit changes (disabled family members) and I'm living in fear of what they will mean for my family. I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone having children they can't afford without benefits for that reason alone.

I thought the government did a u turn and abolished all the plans for tax credit cuts in Autumn ? Including this 2 child rule ? Or am I wrong ?

Someone mentioned up thread that it starts in April 2017...

"Today 10:13 newshoes68

Im new to MN as a friend recommended it.

I have never heard so much bitterness and nasty comments , I'm assuming from woman, which are on this thread and other threads too.
It's vile, vile,
I'm off as I have more intelligent things to do."

I cannot stop laughing at this post! What the fuck was the point in posting that?!

YABU.

Why should everyone else pay for you to stay at home and have another kid?

One thing is for sure, you would be pretty stupid to have more children that you need to rely on benefits to house and feed because with the way things are changing there is no stability from being on benefits anymore and it could all be taking out under your feet.

I wonder if this stupidity extends to those who cannot afford to educate their children privately or to those who cannot afford private health care for their children.

It just strikes me as a very slippery slope of who can actually afford their children. And what funding from the state is ok and what isn't.

Because if you apply the logic that access to health care and education are a given because they aid the continuation of a stable society, what happens when we start disregarding the third child as a worthy beneficiary of the pot? What goes next when you create this climate of cherry picking the 'worthy families' and letting 'the others' slip into poverty. How worthy will you have to be a 'worthy' family in ten years time?

I wonder if this stupidity extends to those who cannot afford to educate their children privately or to those who cannot afford private health care for their children.

It is extremely unlikely that state education to 18 and health care will not be available for children born in 2016/2017.

It is already known that tax credits will be reduced. Under universal credit stay at home parents are expected to work.

Relying on state education and health care is hence entirely different than relying on tax credits, when deciding whether to have another child (regardless of whether you agree with the changes in tax credits or not).

We have 2 kids, husband works full time And no tax credits at all! Some extra money would be great as I am now redundant for fourth time, but it doesn't work like that for us! Can't even get unemployment benefit as last job lasted 10 months so not enough contributions!,, ahhh

Op is at the sharp end of these cuts? What a load of bollocks. There are people existing below the breadline due to cuts. People who have had disability benefits cut so they are barely surviving, or entirely cut and haven't survived. People paying rent top ups from £70 a week jsa. Lone parents having jsa sanctioned because they can't find jobs that fit with paid childcare, or working long hours and still below the breadline. People on zero hour/low paid jobs using food banks and being evicted for not being able to afford rent. People working 24/7 for the carers pittance. People working long hours and still in poverty. Fucking loads of groups in the sharp end of cuts. Op not being able to have a 3rd dc in comfort without also compromising her choice of not working is not the sharp end.

I hope you are right.

I think the NHS is being eroded. That it will afford only the most basic care in the future. And so when your child is in need of more complicated or expensive treatment, you'll be on your own with a chorus if finger pointers telling you that if you had a child but cannot afford top up treatments then what more do you expect?

And that mindset is being forged now with smaller changes.

Wow!!! I have one ds and I'd love another one however my partner works days and I work nights and have our ds during the day we get NOTHING and we work dam hard for the money we have got. Ds doesn't go to nursery cus we cannot afford it and dp pays maintenance for his other 2 children with his ex. You have 2 DC and get to stay home and your upset you may not be able to have a 3rd your bloody lucky to have the 2 youve got!!!! So yabu think yourself lucky that you get the tax credits you do that I am paying towards meaning I can't have a 2nd child that I feel upset that I can't have due to our finances

You can't have a 2nd because your DP already had two kids with somebody else, that's not normal circumstances so put the angry face away thats a 2nd wife's lot in life

I think the NHS is being eroded. That it will afford only the most basic care in the future. And so when your child is in need of more complicated or expensive treatment, you'll be on your own with a chorus if finger pointers telling you that if you had a child but cannot afford top up treatments then what more do you expect?

Yes, the NHS is being eroded. Yes, the care is poor relative to much of the rest of the world. Yes, we pay lower tax rates than most of Europe and if we want better services we all need to pay more tax. (And yes, I already pay for private health care and private dental care for my DC to cover the gaps in the NHS.)

But the shortages in the NHS are a different issue to cutting back on tax credits for a two parent family with three children, in which only one parent chooses to work. As a poster above wrote, there are people far worse affected by the cuts. I want to help these people and get these cuts reversed, but I would not support reinstating tax credits for a third child for somebody in OP's circumstances.

The angry face is because the op is upset she can't have a 3rd child because the government won't fund it out of our tax money that we pay cus we work! I work with adults with learning difficulties and some of the people I care for have had their benefits cut too meaning they miss out on lots more! So yes this thread does make me angry...

They are currently two different issues.

But what about when these cuts are made and then we ready ourselves for the next round?

How many of the people here jumping up and down with this -it's not fair attitude- would also object to the dental treatment of the third child (let's start small). After all, they only had two children because that's what they could afford and they didn't get a pay rise or a holiday this year, so why the hell are they paying the dental treatment for that person's third child?

It's not that I think there is an infinite pot of money but I do find the strength of feeling unsettling and I think it's a green light to politicians to carry on 'othering' people who don't conform to the standard fit and squeezing them out of the public purse.

FWIW, I have three children, I don't get tax credits but my own family has a history of piss poor health so I always feel like a hairs breath from life unravelling in front of me. So I suppose I should declare that I have a dog in this fight.

There seems to be a massive change in attitude towards benefits doesn't there? A few years ago you would have got maybe two or three replies like the ones that this thread is full of and they would probably have been accused of being a benefit basher.

I would disagree with that actually. MN has always tended towards being very supportive of those on out of work benefits, and particularly those who are claiming them dubiously (mustn't judge, nobody's business, tax evasion costs more). But it has always been disapproving of those who actually work and are on top up benefits.

Which I find is a pretty accurate reflection of the middle class left wing in general these days. There's a general contempt for the working class who actually work.

I do find the strength of feeling unsettling and I think it's a green light to politicians to carry on 'othering' people who don't conform to the standard fit and squeezing them out of the public purse.

The government is highlighting cases like OP to push through other cuts to people who are far poor and who will be hit far worse. Defending OP's right to have a third child and get more tax credits while not working gives the government ammunition that their programme of cuts is reasonable and that people who are protesting about it are exaggerating. Asking OP to work evenings if she wants a third child is reasonable; many or most of the other cuts are not and are targeting people in far worse circumstances than OP (a homeowner, parent of 2 healthy DC, living with DH, no major health issues).

There would be (almost) zero support for withholding free healthcare and dental care from any DC, third child or whatever.

"There are people existing below the breadline due to cuts. People who have had disability benefits cut so they are barely surviving, or entirely cut and haven't survived. People paying rent top ups from £70 a week jsa. Lone parents having jsa sanctioned because they can't find jobs that fit with paid childcare, or working long hours and still below the breadline. People on zero hour/low paid jobs using food banks and being evicted for not being able to afford rent. People working 24/7 for the carers pittance. People working long hours and still in poverty"

This is it for me. I hear stories about how cuts have affected those people and that makes me angry. I would happily pay more tax to protect benefits that are necessary for those groups. So that's why I feel strongly.

In circumstances where people who genuinely need help from the state have had it withdrawn, I do feel strongly when someone says they are not happy because the tax paying public will no longer fund their preferences not to go to work and to have a third child.

Surely, in circumstances where disabled people and other key groups are losing benefits, complaining that this type of lifestyle-choice funding is no longer available is utterly bonkers and displaying a stunning lack of awareness?

It's not a crime to want something, is it.

I haven't had time to RTFT all the way through but I am glad that TCs are now limited to the first two children.

I think it is only fair that if you can't afford the kids you shouldn't have them.

A family in my area have 6 kids and the mother has admitted that if the law hadn't changed she would have had more. She currently gets over £17,000 in year just in CTCs and a 7th child would have entitled her to another £2,780 a year in CTC.

If I was an MP I probably would have taken it further and reduced it for more than three existing kids in teach family as well.

It confuses me , it seems like a random process I know my partner and I work bloody hard ( we are self employed ) and we aren't entitled - the people down the road get more in benefits , tax credits and housing benefit than we take home per month and laugh about it because the have 3 kids and no intention of working - we can't 'estimate ' what we will earn next year because we have good months and bad months ( we have months of no income it's the nature of the beast ) .
However our 4 children are clothed , fed , warm and dry - they may have to wait for things they want - they see how hard we work - they've never had a proper holiday but they never compare themselves to the kids that do - I geuss what I'm saying is - you will always muddle through ( we've had some nail biting times ) , my kids are totally happy - you don't need all the latest gear these days because even the cheapest shops have lovely stuff ( I love eBay lol ) . I buy bits and put them away for Christmas and birthdays and am always amazed when the time comes how much I have lol
I do think the system is unfair at times but we won't change it . If you really want another child have one - you will get by xxxx

Newshoes 68

Seriously this is an adult forum and if you dont want opinions then dont ask! You can always ignore someone if they are being deliberately nasty (and you can report them, get the post deleted) but it is a world wide forum so you have to take the rough with the smooth just like the real world.

If telling someone that if they can barely afford the kids they already have not to have another is vile then I hold my hands up

In what universe would you do that on purpose then complain that the government arent 'paying' you to keep them?

Tax credits are fine for their purpose, mainly to help those in work on rubbish wages to have enough income to get by. Unfortunately the system is crap, wages and the area people live in should be taken into account. I am sure I will get the same tc's on my low income as someone in a city where the cost of living is much higher rent/mortgage wise, traveling to work etc. Or they may earn more than me and not get tax credits at all yet their living expenses are much higher and they are struggling to get by whilst working full time.

BUT when you are already struggling to pay your way and having to scrimp and save for stuff having another child is madness. By all means save and put by something for the future, maybe get a part time job if possible around your husbands job (chances are they would get help with childcare if husbands job is low paid anyway) THEN consider having another child. Its not rocket science. Having lots of children ISNT a god given right. OP already has a family, their own home, its disapointing but there is always something we would like to have but we cant. Would she be prepared to jepordise all that because she thought she could have more kids and have them paid for but now she wont be so is still contemplating it?

Benefit cuts are happening, they have been happening for some time and until now they have targeted the sick, disabled and terminally ill. I know of cases where people have starved to death as they couldnt afford to feed themselves the diet they needed, had to chose between the electricity to keep their meds cold in the fridge or eat. There have been numerous suicides over disabled benefit cuts as people were left with absolutely nothing and told to work when they had life threatening/changing illnesses. Their disability allowance stopped over some tick box questionaiire, their jsa sanctioned because they were too ill (or actually in hospital) to get to sign on, being made to apply for jobs that they will never be able to do so their jsa isnt sanctioned again. There are many disabled/sick single men who get nothing but jsa to live on as they dont have the kids living with them, so they are hung out to dry! Try getting to several hospital appointments a month if you cannot access busses, on JSA!

Benefits are there (or are supposed to be there) to support people not to fund a lifestyle they think they deserve. Lots of us would have loved more kids but couldnt afford to, we just enjoy the life we have with the ones we have, it didnt scar me for life.

I thought the third child was only excluded for new claimants?
If you already have 3 kids or more CTC won't be reduced but if you already have 2 kids and then have more you will not receive CTC for the 3rd and later kids.

Evening jobs? Well if your dp works a nice 9-5 job I guess that could work if there are jobs available. Depends whether you want to spend 24/7 working and sleeping or whether quality time with dp and downtime for you are important to you.
As I said, OP was being unreasonable. I was just a bit at the number of people that think getting a job is the answer. For me, not having no.3 would be the answer - still get quality time with dc and dp and downtime for me.

If you need extra money most of us would agree working for it is the answer actually.