To want to change nursery to avoid a particular child

[BettyBi0]

We've had some long standing issues with the way DC's nursery have been handling some behaviour issues. DC is 2.5 and has learnt some choice phrases over the last 6 months or so including lots of threats along the lines of "I'll cut your face", "shut up and do as I say", "you are the loser so ner ner na ner ner" which she has copied from some of the older kids. Some of it is run of the mill bratty stuff, some of it is really quite scary mean stuff. It's a mixed room of 2 to 5 yr olds. The nursery have said they cannot prevent certain kids from playing together but they can intervene if they see/hear anything mean being said. Fair enough... Only they never seem to hear/see anything and whenever I pick DD up she is playing in a group being bossed around by the older kids. There are 2 particular girls that I'd really like DD not to copy and I'd been consoling myself with the fact that they were both off to big school in September. Now I've just found out that one of them has a September birthday and will in fact be there for a whole year more.

Am I mad to consider changing nurseries to avoid this child? I hate the impact she has had on DD and the phrases and behaviours that DD has copied from her and I dread to think of that going on for another year.

Hi Betty bio- if it helps I'm always changing my swimming lessons, play groups etc due to the kids or the teacher. You to do what's right for your kids or you will regret it. Have a word with the nursery though definatley . It's NOT normal to say I'm going to cut your face and the way that he says it.

I made sure my DD junior school was different to one of her so called friends from infants. It made all the difference to her confidence and personality. The issue here is not with the kids but with the adults who are tolerating poor behaviour and not keeping bullying in check. A child saying I'll cut your face is a safeguarding issue which you have made them aware of and they should be dealing with it, not fobbing you off. Why are they not talking to the children involved or their parents as to why they know such language. Yes, your child will be in a class with 29 others soon but every child has a right to feel safe and every school and nursery has the responsibility to ensure they do. She's only 2.5 not 15! I think your instincts are correct.

Saw your post about not moving. This place does not sound worthy of its outstanding rating. If you really are stuck, point out all the UNICEF rights of the child, most notably Article 3, that all adults should do what's best for a child and Article 19, the right not to be hurt or mistreated in body or mind... They can't not do anything!

Nothing you can do about this stuff. My DS learned the actual c word from a classmate when he was 6.

I have a different view point having been a nursery nurse for many years. A room with over 2s does work if managed properly. You need to talk to the manager about the "nasty stuff" there maybe child protection issues and your DD will not be the only one mimicking. Does sound as though the staff aren't interacting with the children enough or they would have heard the language and seen the unacceptable behaviour.

what are five year olds doing there anyway?
Some parents don't fill in the application forms properly or at all. The local authority then don't give them a school place. Legally, they don't have to until the child is 5 years and 3 months. Some parents only put one choice down assuming, as that as that is the only option, they will get it. The local authority has a list of priorities, siblings, distance from school etc. Children who meet these criteria are given places first and if there are remaining places they're filled with those who don't. Parents who are not given their first choice, often turn down the offered school and the child now has no school place so remains in nursery until their 5th birthday.

I personally would look at moving your DD, but not to avoid this child rather because the behaviour management seems a bit lax.

I live in Scotland and my daughter will be 5 and a half before she starts school so there will be many 5 year olds in nursery ... The absolute youngest here starts school at 4 and a half but I would find what you have said concerning... Here 2 year olds would not be with pre schoolers in any setting! Perhaps worth a chat with a manager before moving if you are happy otherwise but if in doubt try elsewhere.

Why such a huge age range? I'd change purely for that reason. And if she's playing in a group being bossed around by the older kids...sorry but where are the staff? What are they doing? That's outright bullying from a child with a better advantage because they're older. There's a reason nurseries and reception kids are separated, they're at different stages of development. It's not like siblings at home where there's some sort of structure and equal footing in terms of disciplining each child.

I'd be questioning the values of the nursery your child attends, raise the issue with the head, if nothing, then to a higher authority.

On the face of it, I'd want to change nurseries if my DD was in that environment. Are there other pros (and cons) to consider, such as an attachment to a key carer or nicer friends? A routine or activites that would be upsetting to disrupt? Have you heard better accounts of the alternative nurseries? Have you spoken with other parents at the nursery about your experience to see if they can help pressure the nursery managers and carers to find a more effective approach to curbing such hateful comments from the older kids?
Even though kids forget the specific incidents of early childhood, they can have a lasting effect. It's only now as an adult with my own child that I recognise the effect of the stresses and anxieties that I experienced as a kid spending a lot of time with a friend who regularly engaged in risky and aggressive behaviour. It triggered a lot of ongoing anxiety about how to conduct childhood friendships. It is difficult for little kids to learn what's ok to do and say if there are other older, charismatic kids acting out and no one in charge is enforcing appropriate boundaries and correcting hurtful behaviour. Some of it may be innocent role play, but it sounds like you are detecting more chaos and negativity than you feel is comfortable for your family.

It's really not uncommon to have 2-4 year olds together. Many nurseries split under 2s and over 2s, and lots of pre-schools take children from 2 or 2.5 to school age in one group. There's lots of evidence that stable groups over several years is better for children than having to move age groups 4 or 5 times before they even start school.

I'm quite shocked that some people assume this is normal behaviour. My DD's nursery has a room for 2-3 yo and another for over 3yo. My DD is almost 4 and never ever has said anything close to that. I'd be horrified and yes, I'd change nursery in that case because nursery staff are not dealing with the issue. In my nursery they go all the opposite way, children are told that they shouldn't say that somebody is 'naughty' but 'acting silly' in order to avoid labelling. They are actually quite on top of what children say. I don't understand why they have 2yo in the same room, though, I thought the ratios were different.

My DS came home from school saying stuff like I'm going to kick you in the face (he's 5). He's my only child so I just assumed it was inevitable once they get to school. It turned out there was a very violent child in his class who was threatening the other children with this sort of thing. It's only since that boy has been permanently excluded that I've realised the impact it was having. I don't know if I'd move a nursery child, but I'd definitely speak to the nursery.

This is not normal language. As others have said, this is a safeguarding issue and the staff are not taking it seriously. I would move her, but again as others have said, it sounds like there are a few rough families there- is she going to be mixing with the same demographic at school? If so, you may want to think about moving out of the area if you can before she is 4.

I think you should go with your instincts. I wouldn't be comfortable seeing my toddler being bossed around by older children or repeating aggressive phrases. Our nursery was fun, nurturing and positive and had 4 age groups in separate rooms. It felt homely and we never got a bad vibe. If you are worried, I wouldn't ignore that feeling.

You'll be changing schools a lot if your solution to your child's behaviour issues is to change schools.

Focus less on looking for someone to blame and more on teaching your own child what is and is not acceptable. At 2.5 yrs, she is more than old enough to understand boundaries of this type.

As for older kids bossing her around - this is normal natural behaviour.

#OwnIt #TakeControl

this

Nursery is quite literally child's play compared to school.

Teach her not to copy, sadly this is only the start. I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect staff to police every word, and I know once at school all kinds of horrific stuff rears its head. Mine tell me how shocked and disgusted by the language now. Scary what some little ones are exposed to at home. My youngest DD was called a 'c*' by one child in Yr 1. The parents were both Heads of Subject at the local private boys school.

Wow there is so much good advice here. Thank you for your opinions - even if some of them are a bit hard to hear.

I really do appreciate that this is just the start and we'll have to navigate similar situations all the way through school and life. We live in a really mixed city area where some of the kids have to grow up very very quickly. I just didn't realise I'd be having to face it all so soon.

I think the majority are right in that the issue isn't really this particular girl, rather the way the nursery are managing the situation. When I first raised concerns I had every confidence in them looking into things properly and things changing. Especially when I mentioned safeguarding concerns about the older girl. They can't give any feedback about this to me of course which is understandable.

The other waiting lists in my area are so insanely long that moving immediately isn't an option unless I moved to her a child minder which would be a massive change. I've now done lots of ringing around and got onto lists which should give me some options in the future.

For the time being does anyone have any great tips on kids books, resources, games etc that I could use with my 2.5yr old to help her learn to make better choices about what she copies?

2 year old should not be mixed with 5 year old. Simple. You are seeing the reasons why. Your nursery is not up to par so move her to a place where she will mingle with a similar or only slightly older group of children. I assume you are paying for the privelege of having your child speak like that. When they go to school you won't be in a position to be moving them around so do it while you can. You don't need to put up with that....its not good enough at all. My 3rd child is in nursery now as were the older two and any problems we have , which is very rare , they take very seriously and deal with it immediately. That is what we expect from them as we pay enough to have our child in a safe nurturing environment. When they are in school they have to toughen up but sorry not at aged 2.5. Put your foot down and take her out and make it very clear why you are doing so.

Betty I don't think you will regret taking the first steps to a change. Not the easiest option so well done. Nursery is supposed to be pre school EDUCATION and the chaotic and loud environment you describe cannot be conducive to education. It also means children think they have to shout to be heard and the quieter children's needs will be overlooked. Also how can the staff adequately observe your DC's development and needs in such an environment?
Sorry I can't recommend any reading matter but have a chat with a librarian at your local public library, I'm sure they can assist. Don't be afraid to trail around all the branches within reach as some may be more helpful than others and remember you can register to borrow books at libraries in other counties etc.
This is a delightful and innocent stage of life and your DC deserves to have a gentler introduction to the world.
Remember, too, if your DC continues to mimic the older children it could well mean that other parents regard her as an undesirable playmate.