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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

..to think my friends could be functioning alcoholics?

96 replies

StillDrSethHazlittMD · 26/07/2016 11:43

A couple. Her mother is an alcoholic. He 42, she is 37. Part of a small social group and they are lovely people, never nasty or inappropriate. But I am more concerned than ever about their drinking and would appreciate advice especially from those who have been there.

We went for a weekend away 18 months ago, organised by them. Mid-afternoon onwards, all three days sat in pubs drinking. Another one organised next month, three of us aren't going because if we go away we want to do things, not just drink. But that's what will happen.

Went to a cider and cheese festival where I might have had three pints over 6 hours. They had loads. Mutual friend who doesn't drink much got a bit maudlin, I got her a cup of tea, female of the pair concerned went and got her another pint. Same friend three weeks ago twice asked for cider shandy when this couple were getting rounds and twice they brought back a pint of cider and it was clearly not a case of being misheard as evidenced by their reaction. Another friend going through bad time, they invited him round to their place and the two blokes got through three bottles of wine and passed out on the sofas. As friend is depressive (I think bipolar) and I have told this couple that drink will not help him, I was not pleased and told them they were actually doing harm not good. Even depressed friend met them at a sausage and ale festival at 5 pm and remarked that they were already pissed having been there since 2 pm.

Suggestion we meet up for a meal tonight to avoid the whole weekend thing and going to a pub. They've said yes but are going straight from work to a pub before meeting us at 7. Three weeks ago, he went out for a quiet pint with two friends and had 5 or 6 pints and the next day he and she drank a lot of wine. By my reckoning they will both generally drink the weekly recommended safe number of units most Friday or Saturday nights, as he will easily drink between 5-8 pints in four hours.

They don't drink every day but at the very least I think this is borderline functioning alcoholism in that it doesn't affect their daily routine or work, but basically it is accepted that most Fridays and Saturdays they will get pissed.

Although I find it boring, I'm more concerned than anything and have suggested to mutual friends we should do more "things" and not just agree with them when they say most weekends "let's go to the pub". We used to do more things, but I'm noticing it's more drink based than before. I've also noticed as a result another friend who didn't used to drink that much is certainly drinking quite a bit more and more often, but not approaching this sort of level.

Both have health problems and weight gain and have decided to join a gym to lose weight. While exercise would help, I think much of their weight and health problems are due to their alcohol intake. Last week they skipped the gym one night to have a BBQ in the nice weather and of course consumed alcohol (no, I didn't go).

Am I being unreasonable in being concerned? I appreciate they may not choose to cut down but am I right to try and get them to do more stuff where they can't drink at weekends, and try to get our other friends to do similar, to minimise any sort of enabling (even if not intended that way)? I feel I need to do something rather than just express concern (which has been done, albeit of the non-lecture kind).

OP posts:
WasabiNell · 26/07/2016 13:03

Cheese festival?? Sausage festival?? We don't get anything like that round here Envy

Lottapianos · 26/07/2016 13:03

'You're being very judgy - don't interfere.'

The great cardinal MN sin of using your judgment to form an opinion Hmm. Like everyone does. All the time.

OP, I was your friends a few years ago. All social events had to revolve around alcohol and I was drinking vast amounts every weekend. I was a classic binger - no booze in the week, boatloads at the weekend. I would not have welcomed anyone discussing my drinking with me and I would suggest that your friends wouldn't either.

It does sound like your friends put away a hell of a lot of booze and I understand why you feel concerned, but I don't think there's anything you can do to change that. By all means, make plans that don't involve boozing - if you're a moderate drinking, then spending hours in the pub is very dull indeed. Nothing wrong with making plans that you think you might enjoy a bit more. However, it doesn't sound like either of them are currently looking for help, so I think you need to keep you (very understandable) concerns about their drinking to yourself

danTDM · 26/07/2016 13:06

I find your post strange. Of course they had drinks at a beer/cider festival. If someone got a cup of tea I would be highly irritated to be honest. They have their lifestyle which you seem to be very judgey over.

Just distance yourself.

They don't sound like alcoholics, just people who drink heavily. Why so keen for label? Odd.

Oblomov16 · 26/07/2016 13:07

"They sound ace?
Where do they live? "

Ha ha!

What exactly is your problem?
They don't drink during the week. Them Friday to Sunday, so the weekend, they have bbq's, go to festivals, cheese and cider, etc.

They don't fall over or get nasty. Perfectly pleasant.
So?

What's their names? Friendship request me, I'm in!!!!!! I'm there!!

danTDM · 26/07/2016 13:08

You also seem to monitor very closely what and how much they drink. Over how many hours. When they arrive etc. Do you have issues with alcohol?

MammouthTask · 26/07/2016 13:08

The thing is, if they have been told they are going down the kidney transpant route, I'm sure they will have been to,d alcohol isn't a good idea (certainly not in those quantities).
But if they know and still 'choose' to do it, there is little you can do.

YY about not judging and being there if/when they need it more.
And YY about being concerned about them. I would be.
It's always hard when people you care about are going down a self deatructive route. But to be able to help, they first need to ask for help themsleves iyswim.
In the mean time, you can carry on being a good friend to them.

exWifebeginsat40 · 26/07/2016 13:13

I'm an alcoholic and I definitely used to drink outrageous amounts. I 'functioned' for a good while - held down a job, travelled for work, lived in a naice house.

i quit just over 2 years ago. I quit because the withdrawals were getting dangerous - my last withdrawal nearly killed me. by then I had spent time in psychiatric hospitals and had lost everything.

my alcoholism definitely had an acceptable face as long as I dressed it up as a good time and drank with people who drank like me. I don't see any of them anymore - they dropped me like a ton of bricks when I quit.

the upshot is, OP, that nobody can stop someone else's behaviour. if you were my friend and suggested I should cut down I would have simply got a new friend.

so really I don't think there is anything much you can do. sorry.

StillDrSethHazlittMD · 26/07/2016 13:14

Dan I didn't complain about their drinking at the cider festival in itself. What that, and the following examples were about, was them not seeming to accept that other people didn't want alcohol, had said as much, but continuing to try and get them to drink more. Hence my asking if even going to the pub with them was "enabling" them to an extent. No, I have no issues with alcohol. I rarely have one drink a week. That 3 pints at the festival in 6 hours was probably the most in a long time. I have never been a big drinker. But I do know two alcoholics (many years dry). I have been noticing more since their health has deteriorated and knowing that for at least one of them, what they are doing is potentially making a very bad situation worse.

OP posts:
NobodyInParticular · 26/07/2016 13:15

I know someone exactly like this OP. Everything they enjoy is based around alcohol - socialising, pub poker team, pub boules team, real ale festivals / other festivals. They were drinking 5 days a week. Usually one bad day of 8/9 fairly strong (real ale) pints every Friday or Saturday, probably 2-3 nights of around 4/5/6 pints and 1-2 nights of 1/2/3 pints. They could go without alcohol for a couple of days and certainly didn't need a drink when they woke up in the morning. There were times when they would shake and vomit the next day during hangovers and would have a couple of drinks to try to lessen the hangover! Not a good sign! Unfortunately, although they realised there was a problem they dont really care because they are very confident that they are drinking to little to be at risk of liver damage and believe the government guidelines and advice to be politically motivated scare tactics with no truth.

What can you do!? Really, not much! They're not going to cut down unless they actually want to change. But when someone's whole social life is built around drinking there is no motivation to change. If I were you, I'd just avoid seeing these friends, or suggest going to do things where alcohol isn't involved, though from my experience I doubt you'll have much luck with that!

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF · 26/07/2016 13:15

I just re-read the bit about how they skipped the gym to have a BBQ and booze. While I no longer drink, I can kind of empathise with people who might choose a BBQ over a workout....!

NobodyInParticular · 26/07/2016 13:16

^ I agree it's common for people who drink too much to want to encourage others to help mask their own drinking / make it seem more acceptable.

StillDrSethHazlittMD · 26/07/2016 13:18

Lorelei Yes, I'm the same on that score, can't stand the gym! They asked the rest of our group "anyone fancy a BBQ" but only one of us was free; but that friend said to me afterwards she felt bad because had she not gone, they would have gone to the gym and not drank at all.

OP posts:
Gottagetmoving · 26/07/2016 13:20

YANBU to be concerned but not to interfere really.

They have a lifestyle that revolves around drinking and yes, they probably drink too much based on recommended safe levels but it is their choice.

It is not a lifestyle you follow so you should not have to fit in with it but neither should they change theirs to suit you, whether it is better for them health wise or not.

You are the one with the dilemma, so you have to decide whether you can tolerate being in their company or not. If you want to socialise with them then accept them as they are but let them know you don't want to drink and are happy to abstain.

LagunaBubbles · 26/07/2016 13:26

I am trying to understand how best to try and help, if at all possible

Help with what? Have they said they want to cut down their drinking?

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 26/07/2016 13:26

this thread is so typical of the UK, and our very unhealthy attitude to alcohol

I am sure they are ace and lovely, but OP Yanbu

There is not much you can do through, I have friends like this and I tend to arrange less stuff, and see them in the day time more.

The predictable future is an earlier death, and 100% some level of adrenal/renal failure and cancer

AND, just read your update, SEE! they have fucking kidney failure.

With my dad, I had him massively cut down. Its sometimes easier to reduce than cut

fuck knows.

you are not being judgey. not at all

and, we are going to likely get cancer anyway so leave them to it

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF · 26/07/2016 13:27

seth. I do understand your concern, and I know a lot of posters are saying 'none of your business' etc. I was (in hindsight) fortunate enough to have good friends who told me how worried they were about my drinking - I pushed them away/ shut them out. All you can do is be a good pal, really. You seem kind and empathetic and I sincerely hope they are NOT addicted - my truest friends were not the ones who pointed out I had a problem, but the ones who stuck around when the shit hit the fan.

MargaretCavendish · 26/07/2016 13:29

I actually think any sense of moral obligation here is greatly lessened by the fact that they have diagnosed conditions and that they are making other lifestyle adjustments (the gym). There is no way that they haven't been told that they should also cut down on alcohol; they're either in denial or wilfully ignoring it, and either way you're not going to change their minds. I also think - and I'm not trying to be nasty - that you may not be the best placed of their friends to give this advice in any case. I think it's likely that they'll also pick up on the strongly judgemental undercurrent that has upset people here.

If you're not enjoying socialising with them then stop. If you want to see them but not drunk go only for the beginnings of these gatherings then leave.

SteviebunsBottrittrundle · 26/07/2016 13:32

Having lost a parent to alcoholism I am usually on the non-boozy side of the argument on these thread but I'm a bit on the fence with this one.

On one hand these people do sound like they might drink too much, so I understand your concern. However if their behaviour is only causing harm to their own health, then it is not really anyone else's business to a point. I would probably treat it in the same way as if I knew someone who had a weight problem which was leading to health problems; basically I would tread extremely carefully. You might not think you are being judgemental, but I suspect your friends might think differently.

On another note, I wouldn't be going to any more booze festivals with them. If they are dependent on alcohol, that is the absolute last place I would want to go with them.

KingLooieCatz · 26/07/2016 13:35

I don't think YABU. The world is not divided neatly into alcoholics and non-alcoholics. I have worked with many people who have a problematic or unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Not necessarily dependent or addicted though. As a colleague used to put it "if you only drink at Christmas and your birthday but on those two days a year you can't stop - you need to look at your relationship with alcohol".

I think you have given some examples that illustrate at the very least your friends' unhealthy relationship with alcohol, e.g. consistently buying people more alcohol than they wanted, buying more drinks for someone who is getting maudlin. That's a bit adolescent.

I have or had a friend a bit like this. She loves having someone she can encourage/pressure to drink well beyond their limits. It is sport for her. The last visit to see her ended up a miserable experience for me as a result of others drinking to excess, haven't seen her for a couple of years, so maybe I should say ex-friend.

I think you can try being a bit clearer that you would like to spend time with them that doesn't revolve around getting pissed, but if they're not interested you may need to cultivate some new friends and distance yourselves.

greenfolder · 26/07/2016 13:40

i had a similar friend. i just stopped seeing them because i didn't like the level of drinking. she often referred to my restraint- when i thought only drinking maybe 3 pints in an evening was normal. I took the view that she was only a friend and it was not my place to have a view worth expressing on her life.

MintyChapstick · 26/07/2016 13:41

You can't help them, and speaking from personal exprience any concern you show will be taken the wrong way and you will be seen as the bad guy/intefering etc. People who drink too much are usually very defensive about it, but completley unaware of how others see them and how boring and difficult they are to be around.

I strongly suspect my DM of being alcohol dependent. Even the gentlest suggestions that she should cut back causes her to explode and take huge offence, she was seething when her sister suggested she get a liver function test one time.

Oh and it's perfectly possible to go to a festival and drink responsibly. Yes we all get pissed from time to time, but the key is to pace yourself. Alternate alcohol with water or soft drinks, make an alcoholic drink last. No your limits. I've never had a problem with this.

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF · 26/07/2016 13:43

king Good point. I could not make it through the day without alcohol; my sister can go weeks without drinking, but when she does, it is always to excess and she is usually very regretful of the way she has behaved (particularly on Facebook!). She is now determine to quit for good because it has stopped being in any way enjoyable for her. Maybe that is the best definition - when alcohol ceases to be fun, and the problems caused by drinking outweigh the good times.

alltouchedout · 26/07/2016 13:44

Their drinking is well above safe levels.

It's alarming how many posters are belittling you, OP. Don't get me wrong-I have definitely drunk far more than is healthy at times in my life and on occasion I still really enjoy a drink that could only be classed as a binge, but the point is it's occasional. I don't hammer myself two nights in every seven as these people sound to be doing. If I did I would be very ill. Like one of them already is!

If you raise it with them you will likely get the outraged ,defensive responses littered throughout this thread. Probably tinged with a bit of "that you could even suggest this wounds me terribly" attempts to make you feel very, very bad. And tbh I doubt for a moment it is worth raising. People have to recognise a problem and want to change for anything to happen- you can't force it.

Lottapianos · 26/07/2016 13:47

Its shocking that one of them is possibly facing a kidney transplant at their young ages.

PickAChew · 26/07/2016 13:55

The most you can really do is continue to be assertive about things like not wanting to spend the afternoon in the pub getting tanked up or whatever you may get invited along to. At events where alcohol is involved, stay out of the buying rounds malarkey. That way you get what you wanted every time and they can't pressurise you to join in the heavy drinking.

Or meet them for one drink at lunchtime in the knowledge that have somewhere to be at 2pm, of your choice. They may get the message that you like their company best when they're not pissed. If they ask why you don't stick around, tell them.