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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wonder why casual or even overt racism is acceptable on MN?

150 replies

RedHareWithBlondeHair · 22/07/2016 22:23

Just this - there's a thread in Site Stuff asking the same but I'd like to ask the wider MN audience why is this fine. Just in the recent past we've had a poster questioning an 'apparent' adam's apple on one of the greatest female athletes and another poster hellbent on telling us that Police violence on black men isn't a 'thing'. In these threads HQ HAS left the thread to stand and in their words " we felt that the discussion that followed was interesting and informative and educational for the OP." Why is that? If I started a thread about Taylor Swift being an attention seeking whore or a thread about ADHD children just needing a telling off I'd be deleted within the hour. Why the fuck do other MNetters think ethnic minorities are up for grabs? Why does HQ think the same? In the thread on Site Stuff there's only an apology. This sort of shit happens repeatedly. Why?

OP posts:

Piscivorus · 23/07/2016 01:03

I have to say though, I missed the thread today so don't know how offensive we are talking about here

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:03

I am incredibly confused as to why people think because we want racist posts dealt with promptly and appropriately we are not for education and healthy debate?? I do not see the two as mutually exclusive?

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:06

Right - so you will understand there are some people that no amount of education or discussion will ever share your views.

We are not saying to ban discussion or debate - i'd really encourage if people wanted to challenge and discuss a a topic such as low educational attainment in black youths - yes not exactly comfortable but can be discussed and backed with evidence and stats and educate people.

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:07

But we do not have to allow racism in order to have a debate.

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:07

And I suppose if someone said to me online "fuck off and die you fag" then I think they should be kicked off forthwith, but if they said "my Christian beliefs dictate that gay marriage is wrong" then I'd want the opportunity to challenge them.

I don't know how else you can logically think about it than like that - a spectrum of offensiveness with an inexact point where something becomes more offensive than worthy of debate. What else can you do?

Eminado · 23/07/2016 01:11

It seem obvious to me John has not experienced racism personally.

It is so wearing listening to non black people telling black people what they should and shouldn't be offended by.

my life is not an open ended educational opportunity for bigots.

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:12

Well yeah, if someone has come on to just troll racist bile then there is no debate to be had and their comments should be moderated. But if they are a UKIP supporter making an ill-founded point about the immigration system then perhaps they are best challenged..

That's all anyone can say really! Not sure what we're arguing about - think we basically agree.

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:13

Sorry I have just said over and over and over again that any racist comments directed at black people should be banned.

?????

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:14

I give up John - we are not going to see eye to eye on this so let's just agree to disagree. I did not want to spend my time arguing as to why I am offended or whether I have a right to be offended.

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:16

What are we disagreeing about???

UnikittyInHerBusinessSuit · 23/07/2016 01:16

The problem is, John, that some people are very very good at doing faux naïf trolling.

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:17

What I am hearing is the massive "but" at the end of your sentence

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:21

I hear you minimising, justifying and not really understanding the impact of racism - that's where we disagree

And you can say you are not - but clearly I am not the only one on this thread that feels that way about your posts.

"I support you, but...." is essentially what I am hearing

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:21

What sentence? I'm not being faux; I have said CATEGORICALLY that racial abuse of the kind described by you should be banned from public forums. I'm agreeing with you. What else am I supposed to say?

I honestly don't know what you are talking about or what we are arguing about. What is that I have said that you disagree with?

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:24

And if you had left it at that it would have been fine John - but instead you are trying to make us understand your view point as to when offence has to take a back seat to nuture debate

Today with feelings running high I am never going to agree.

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:32

My 'but' only related to the principal that bigotry can sometimes be best addressed by challenge rather than censorship. The Sun and The Daily Mail are racist but I do not think they should be banned because that will only perpetuate the notion that there is a liberal elite PC brigade trying to control us and all that bollockd...and thus ncrease the powet and victim mentality of these people. I would much rather a racist Sun editorial about the refugee crisis was held up in a classroom and explained to be groundless propaganda rather than just wiped from the face of the earth so that no such critical discussion is possible. However, when something is said online that is hurtful, offensive, racist and from which no debate is possible then it should be banned. Should Nigel Farage be banned from the airwaves though? Arguably not, because it would turn him into a martyr hero and would deprive the rest of us the opportunity to call out his nasty, xenophobic little outfit for what it is.

What other reasonable way is there of looking at this????

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:33

But John that is not what this thread is about - why don't you get that?

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:35

Sorry, I don't mean any offence. You just did seem to suggest I was apologising for racism - which I do find offensive and hurtful. And I'd no idea what I'd said that made you think that?

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:35

At this precise moment in time my argument and the entire purose of this thread is why MNHQ allow OVERT racist posts to stand.

Simple. I really have nothing more to say to you.

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:37

Well, after agreeing with you I was broadening the discussion into one of where the line between free speech and censorship should lie. I thought that might be a worthwhile discussion...sorry.

JohnJ80 · 23/07/2016 01:38

And I AGREED WITH YOU several times that overt racist posts should be banned.

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:39

This is almost laughable - I offended you???... well if I did I am very sorry and I mean that sincerely.

What the hell was I thinking for wanting to ban racist posts, when clearly the need for debate and education outweighs that

Eminado · 23/07/2016 01:40

At this precise moment in time my argument and the entire purose of this thread is why MNHQ allow OVERT racist posts to stand.

^^
This!!!!

Focus on this John
Why do u keep mentioning "censorship" and "debate" to dilute each and every time Duchess makes her point. Daily fail etc is not what she is talking about 🙆🏾

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:40

And as I kept trying to bring it back to the OP - if you want a broad discussion please go ahead and start a thread.

I am trying to stick with the OP.

CrazyDuchess · 23/07/2016 01:43

Eminado I should have left this conversation hours ago!! It has been incredibly painful.

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