Regarding MIL having DS

[KiwiLaura]

DS is 22 months, MIL has always had a strained relationship with DH (he had a terrible childhood) and they are distant. MIL has always been controlling (demanding he does and , laying on immense guilt, telling him she was ashamed of him for sending a relative a card one day late/sending a card from funkypigeon and not one bought in a shop/buying his grandmother posh chocolates for christmas as this wasn't a suitable gift, etc etc etc) prior to us having DS so I guess I expected some of this behaviour was to come.

Ever since DS was born MIL was pushing to have him on her own (as early as 2 months old - "well you have to leave him some time!!") but DS has always been nervous of her. She tends to be very pushy and forceful, always shunting him onto the next activity when he might want to just be left alone to play with the toy he currently has, "come on DS, let's do this now!" and basically pulling him about - no asking or encouraging, just picking him up and moving him along. She also seems to demand/expect him to give her kisses, affection, love her etc and is very dramatic ("he doesn't like me!") when he won't.

In the past 6 months or so I've started letting MIL (and her partner of 3 years who she insists we make DS call 'granddad') have him on her own at her house for a few hours. The problem is he NEVER wants to go and whenever he sees her (or her partner) he runs away screaming and tries to hide. It's to the point where I have to pretend I'm going in the car to their house too so that he'll let me put him in the car seat. MIL is obviously very upset about this but tries to reassure me constantly that as soon as they get there he's absolutely fine, never cries, etc. When I pick him up he has very visible tear stains on his face but I'm told he hasn't cried at all. He also cries with relief when he sees me and runs to me and won't leave my side until we go.

This alone is bad enough but now she's pushing us to let her partner have him on his own. No offence, but although we have fallen into this trap of calling him 'granddad' to DS ((part of my hesitance is because MIL has a long track record of getting bored in relationships and has had many, many partners)) I don't really regard him as anyone other than MIL's partner and I feel uncomfortable with him watching my son on his own. I don't really know him that well and.. What's the point? I agreed to let MIL's partner pick him up yesterday because he had his twin DSes (8 years old) with him and DS does like playing with them (MIL was at work but did come back, it worked out to about 2 hours DS was on his own with MIL's partner and his 2 DSes), but I'm worried because I've agreed to that that MIL will insist her partner has DS all the time from now on.

Sorry, this is all a bit rambly isn't it. Basically, I am at a point where I don't really want to do this anymore. The "handover" is always really shitty for me and I feel guilty for making DS stay with them when he clearly doesn't want to. But they make me feel like it's completely normal for DS to act this way and it's perfectly right he should stay with them, how else are they going to bond and form a relationship with DS blah blah blah (coming and spending time with him at our house when I'm there is not good enough apparently). Should I continue forcing DS to go to their house and if so, should I relent and agree that MIL's partner should be allowed to have DS on his own?

Wow I am amazed you allowed your son crying, screaming and afraid, to stay in a situation he is desperately trying to tell you he is very unhappy with.

What thesparrowhawk said

The reason I persevered for the past 6 months was because I was assured of what a wonderful time he was having whilst he was there, which again I can't prove or disprove. It was sort of suggested that he just played up in front of me and this was normal for kids to do. Just to comment in response to the harsher posters on here.

Regardless, I will be stopping unsupervised contact. It's just a question of what to say to her now but think Becky's post looks like a good way to go about it.

And yes, I do agree it is very weird that she wants her partner to have DS alone.

but DS has always been nervous of her.... .. he NEVER wants to go and whenever he sees her (or her partner) he runs away screaming and tries to hide........ MIL...tries to reassure me constantly that as soon as they get there he's absolutely fine, never cries, etc. When I pick him up he has very visible tear stains on his face but I'm told he hasn't cried at all..... the look of pure relief on his face when I pick him up

Read what you've written here.

You are absolutely right not to force your poor little son to go there any more.

This isn't about fairness, fairness doesn't matter here (though if you were going to talk about it, what about the 'fairness' of making a very small boy go to an adult he hates being with? He can't walk away).

This is about the fact you are forcing a young child to go to a place he is deeply unhappy in, that you have to lie to him to get him in the car, and that his own father won't see this woman.

Have to ask, why did you allow this to happen in the first place? Pressure is very hard to handle, but your son is so deeply unhappy.

what this woman thinks or wants is, in this case, wrong. It's wrong because she is forcing a deeply unhappy little boy to be with her and she is lying about what's going on .... you know that because of the tears on his face thing. Do you have any ideas what is -actually- happening when you're not there to intervene? How she is treating him?

Your husband is at fault here, though it is intensely hard to go against her conditioning. Still, he hates dealing with her but he'll allow a defenseless, vulnerable child to be alone with her knowing what she is like. He needs to put his little boy above her high handed demands.

You have to be very strong here and get your mama-tiger suit on. You have to stand up to her. If you're afraid of what other people will say (you shouldn't be) then you can explain that your little boy is hysterically unhappy about going there and until he's happier, it's better not to force him. It'll only make him dread her instead of love her.

Mind you it sounds like actually he dreads her already.
Please protect him.

...cross post ... very glad to hear you're stopping unsupervised visits.

And yes about the partner. I realise this is harsh and you were under pressure, but you should have stopped unsupervised visits a long time ago. You do know he's deeply unhappy and don't know what MIL is doing to make him so unhappy. Letting her (temporary) partner take him alone? No. No. No.

'The reason I persevered for the past 6 months was because I was assured of what a wonderful time he was having whilst he was there, which again I can't prove or disprove. It was sort of suggested that he just played up in front of me and this was normal for kids to do. Just to comment in response to the harsher posters on here.'

I think you need to wake up a bit. Her own son doesn't even like her. She was a shit parent. She is manipulative and childish. Your son is frightened of her. And yet you believe her when she says your son is happy? Why? She's hardly going to say 'he was distraught' is she?

Absolutely no way. Your child your responsibility.

"the look of pure relief on his face when I pick him up"

Just think about that every single time that she tries to persuade you to make him stay.

I was never left with my GPs.

Still have great memories of them though.

There is some good info about narcissistic personality disorder (Wikipedia, "stately homes" thread on MN...). It would probably be worth to have a good read. Might also help your DH deal with FOG as mentioned by PP.
It's interesting, my MIL is also narcissistic and she also insists that her husband gets the DCs when babies. Don't know why either. She doesn't get the DCs unsupervised except for a short walk around the block, protecting them comes first.

I don't know what happens. Yesterday she took him to the park in a pram with the other boys and they had a picnic when she got back from work. This is what she's told me at least, though the kids did back it up (blurted out how they'd pushed him to the park in the pram). It's all presented in such a way that I feel so unreasonable to doubt it. But then I see DS's face and it all changes.

It's irrelevant now though, I accept I should have stopped it sooner and of course regret this. But it's going to stop now.

My dad had a shitty childhood NGOs stepmum, my nana, was vile.

We probably used to stay there once a year for a few days. One visit, I cried over the phone to mum, who said she'd come and get me the next day, earlier than planned. The utter RELIEF I felt I can still remember 30+ years later.

I can also remember the devastation when nana got off the phone and told me she'd persuaded mum to change her mind and leave me there for the whole week, because I was making a fuss about nothing. I felt so helpless

Your ds may be able to relate to these sorts of feelings in the future. I think about this incident often, even though I made a decision not to see her any more at age 18. She died 15 years later.

Good for you Kiwi, stick to your guns and stop them. You know your son!

If this was a childcare setting (nursery, childminder) would you be sending your child who clearly is so distressed? I wouldn't. Fob her off if necessary saying you might resume unaccompanied visits when he is older and calmer about it all.

As mentioned by everyone, your DC comes first. I made the mistake of letting ex mil look after my eldest for 6mth - didn't happen with the other two Stick to your guns kiwi- she'll get over herself eventually.

Bloody hell. So many threads like this. What is it with some grandparents that they feel they have some sort of divine right to have their GCs stay over/spend the day with them?

If ds is miserable, very wary of MIL and clearly not having a pleasant time with them, he shouldn't have to go. It doesn't matter how much MIL may want it, if you don't, then that's the end. If DP can't stand them, why the heck, as so many people have said, should his son have to?

Next time they summon him over, you are going to have to be assertive and say no.

Just top trump anything MIL (and DH) say with

"He's my son, I know him better than you, I can tell he doesn't want to stay without me at the moment" if they carry on pick up your DS and walk out.

Why are you allowing your baby to go through this? Why? And this partner of MIL's who now 'needs' to have him on his own? Sorry, massive red flag for me. OP, in the kindest possible way, wake up and protect your child.

op seriously why the fuck have you been allowing this?

You and Dh need to grow a back bone and stop this madness.

Don't let him go there again.

I can't get over the fact your baby runs, screaming, and actually tries to HIDE from these people and this has gone on for 6 months. I feel so sorry for him.

I've only read the first page.

Please please stop. Your ds hates this, please do not let him go through this. You must protect him, please stop. It's your job to step in and prevent him from getting scared and upset, which atm isn't happening because you are prioritising dh and mil's wants.

Going back to rtft

I'll second everyone who has said you need to put your DS's emotional wellbeing first and stop these visits immediately-each time you leave him there knowing he is distressed and upset is emotional abuse.

As for MIL crying on the phone, this is when you need the broken record technique-if she starts crying, the response should be 'I cannot discuss this with you if you are bahaving like a child. We will discuss this later when you are prepared to behave like an adult', and just keep repeating endlessly. Hopefully that will put an stop to her tantrums-she's throwing a tantrum because that has got her what she wanted in the past. Make sure it doesn't work anymore.

And as for the partner wanting to have your son on his own, one-to-one care by a man you barely know?? And the partner of a woman whom you consider to be a poor mother to her own child, and causing emotional distress to yours? Seriously? This is screaming red flags to me-what on earth does this potentially unknown person want with your child on his own?

Oh Kiwi

Offers and

It sounds like you have been completely trampled over love. You've got to the stage of doubting your instincts.

Be strong, get those big girl pants on and stand up to this manipulative bitch

Please don't back down and sacrifice your son in order to get this nasty piece of work off your back.

Especially when the winged monkeys start circling. Just be prepared for a crony or two to start telling you his unreasonable you're being, including your husband.