Regarding MIL having DS

[KiwiLaura]

DS is 22 months, MIL has always had a strained relationship with DH (he had a terrible childhood) and they are distant. MIL has always been controlling (demanding he does and , laying on immense guilt, telling him she was ashamed of him for sending a relative a card one day late/sending a card from funkypigeon and not one bought in a shop/buying his grandmother posh chocolates for christmas as this wasn't a suitable gift, etc etc etc) prior to us having DS so I guess I expected some of this behaviour was to come.

Ever since DS was born MIL was pushing to have him on her own (as early as 2 months old - "well you have to leave him some time!!") but DS has always been nervous of her. She tends to be very pushy and forceful, always shunting him onto the next activity when he might want to just be left alone to play with the toy he currently has, "come on DS, let's do this now!" and basically pulling him about - no asking or encouraging, just picking him up and moving him along. She also seems to demand/expect him to give her kisses, affection, love her etc and is very dramatic ("he doesn't like me!") when he won't.

In the past 6 months or so I've started letting MIL (and her partner of 3 years who she insists we make DS call 'granddad') have him on her own at her house for a few hours. The problem is he NEVER wants to go and whenever he sees her (or her partner) he runs away screaming and tries to hide. It's to the point where I have to pretend I'm going in the car to their house too so that he'll let me put him in the car seat. MIL is obviously very upset about this but tries to reassure me constantly that as soon as they get there he's absolutely fine, never cries, etc. When I pick him up he has very visible tear stains on his face but I'm told he hasn't cried at all. He also cries with relief when he sees me and runs to me and won't leave my side until we go.

This alone is bad enough but now she's pushing us to let her partner have him on his own. No offence, but although we have fallen into this trap of calling him 'granddad' to DS ((part of my hesitance is because MIL has a long track record of getting bored in relationships and has had many, many partners)) I don't really regard him as anyone other than MIL's partner and I feel uncomfortable with him watching my son on his own. I don't really know him that well and.. What's the point? I agreed to let MIL's partner pick him up yesterday because he had his twin DSes (8 years old) with him and DS does like playing with them (MIL was at work but did come back, it worked out to about 2 hours DS was on his own with MIL's partner and his 2 DSes), but I'm worried because I've agreed to that that MIL will insist her partner has DS all the time from now on.

Sorry, this is all a bit rambly isn't it. Basically, I am at a point where I don't really want to do this anymore. The "handover" is always really shitty for me and I feel guilty for making DS stay with them when he clearly doesn't want to. But they make me feel like it's completely normal for DS to act this way and it's perfectly right he should stay with them, how else are they going to bond and form a relationship with DS blah blah blah (coming and spending time with him at our house when I'm there is not good enough apparently). Should I continue forcing DS to go to their house and if so, should I relent and agree that MIL's partner should be allowed to have DS on his own?

[AdjustableWench]

It's really really hard to deal with people like your MIL. We're (mostly) brought up to try not to offend or upset people, and then when we encounter people like your MIL we have to learn a whole new set of techniques for dealing with their nonsense. It takes months of questioning yourself to get to the point where you realise that actually their behaviour really is that inappropriate and yes actually, you really can tell them you won't play their game any more. And then you have to find a way to harden your heart to their tears and manipulation and guilt trips.

So I don't agree with people who are being hard on you for letting this go on for months. It takes months to see what's really going on. It's great that you see that now.

I know you're worried that she will tell people you're being unreasonable. And that maybe they'll take her side. If anyone tries to tackle you about it, you just need a stock phrase to repeat: something like, "Thanks, but I'll make my own decisions about this." And refuse to be drawn into a discussion.

You're doing the right thing!

[Porcupinetree]

I'm a bit shocked that you have continued to send your son to a place he is obviously uncomfortable with and rightly or wrongly I find the Grandmother's partner downright creepy to be honest.

[Chippednailvarnishing]

I'd be asking the local police for information on the partner under Sarah's law Op. There's something a bit odd.

[hairycatmum]

I agree with adjustablewench-having a set phrase prepared if you're put into a difficult situation is good advice. If you get challenged by MIL, or by her friends/cronies, use your phrase-don't get dragged into justifying your behaviour or your actions-he's your son, and you don't need to justify why you are protecting him. Just tell them 'we have made our decision, this isn't up for discussion', 'he is my son, and I will decide what I think best for him', and if they keep on at you-walk away. Most of us are brought up to be decent, caring people who think the best of everyone, and its really hard for us to behave 'rudely' (saying 'no' to nasty MILs for example), and thats how we end up with people like your MIL who has probably never heard no in her life.

[SeaEagleFeather]

Glad to hear you're taking control kiwi and not making him go. Definitely the right decision.

[Shizzlestix]

Are you for real?? You know this woman was a terrible parent, you barely know the partner, your DS cries and screams and is scared of her and yet you still let her look after him?? What the actual fuck? You need to buck the fuck up and protect your son.

Very, very hard not to metaphorically shout at you, kiwi, but Jesus, woman, wake up and smell the fucking coffee.

[KiwiLaura]

Just to point out: it's not MIL's partner insisting on this, it's MIL. Although I don't know what's being said behind the scenes of course, but outwardly he doesn't seem that bothered.

[Coconut0il]

I always find it strange when people, family or friends, ask to have other people's children on their own. Why? Why do they need to? What is it they want to do that they couldn't do by visiting? DS1 has been left with family members when I've asked them but in 12 years no one has ever asked to have him on their own. I would find it quite odd.
Definitely don't send him again. You don't need a reason just no.

[HarryPottersMagicWand]

It CAN be normal for a child to be distressed when being dropped off somewhere. DD used to do it with nursery, if they didn't physically take her from me she would run out of the door after me, she would be crying and clinging. This was despite having run happily all the way there. She always settled after I left and always looked happy when I arrived to pick her up. That's the difference. She was clingy with me in general, used to do it with my nan who she loved going to, even DH sometimes if I went out. She did it for a while when she started school, but I always knew she was fine after I left and she was ALWAYS happy when I came back.

If she had been screaming and crying the whole time and was really relieved when I returned, I wouldn't have carried on with nursery at all.

[AcrossthePond55]

Your child only has YOU to protect him in this situation. Your DH apparently won't do the job so it's up to you.

Your MiL doesn't matter in this. Your DH doesn't matter in this. Even YOU don't matter in this. The only one who does matter is your son. So let your MiL whinge and moan. Let your DH be upset or p-whipped by his mummy. And if you have to put up with both of them, well, that's up to you. Frankly I'd tell them both to piss off.

The idea that a child, any child, would run screaming from a grandparent just chills me. My two would be more likely to cry when I picked them up because time at the grandparents was so wonderful that they didn't want to come home.

[BlackVelvet1]

don't worry Kiwi, I'm sure your son will soon forget what happened with MIL. Your DH might need more help to get out of the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt).

It took me 10 years to figure out what was going on with my MIL and when I read about NPD it all came together: the gaslighting, the lies, the domestic thieft, narcissistic injury and resulting narcissistic rage, DH's FOG, FIL's codependency, etc... And last but not least my own low self-esteem that made me allow her to treat me like crap.

[Mellifera]

I'd have a very serious conversation with your DH. He had a shitty childhood, because of his shitty mum.
Why should your DS have a shit time there? Do you think she has changed?
Your son tells you in every way he can that he does not want to be there. I'm glad you are listening to him but I fear she will ramp up the pressure. Be prepared for it, listen to your gut instinct which tells you not to leave your DS out of your sight.
And as other posters wrote, I would also be extremely cautious about this step-GD. It doesn't sound right.

I had a shit childhood too because of my mum. None of my children ever spent time with her alone. She tried, I always said no. End of. My children needed me to protect them as I know she hasn't changed (manipulative, abusive, neglectful).

[HedgehogHedgehog]

Stop sending him alone. My parents used to send me to my grans when i was little despite her being extremely horrid to my mum when she was a child, because they thought shed mellowed in old age.....
She hadnt, she went on to severely emotionally abuse me and ive spent most of my adult life trying to get over it.
Just stay strong and go with your instincts. You know she was vile to your husband growing up why do you want to inflict that on your child?? Point that out to your husband as well.
Good luck xxx

[velocitykate]

You are having to lie to your son to get him to go in the car with them.

If he can't trust his own mother, who can he trust? Please don't sacrifice your own relationship with your son to keep a narcissist happy.