To think this 'nut free policy' is OTT for a school

[MerryMarigold]

So, letter home about next term's 'nut free' policy and I think it's a bit extreme but tell me what you think. In packed lunches (I will have 3 having packed lunch next year), we are not allowed to include:

• Fruit and cereal bars which contain nuts
• Sesame seed rolls
• Nutella
• Peanut butter
• Cakes made with nuts
• Muesli bars
• Baklava/ Nougat/ Turkish Delight
• Any packets of nuts

I would assume we are not allowed to give them pistachios in a Tupperware box either.

Anyway, my point is that how can they police it this closely? I know some kids cannot come into ANY contact with nuts, but for example, my kids would have nuts in granola at breakfast and probably not always wash their hands before school (if they remembered to clean their teeth when they first get up). I also refuse to check the ingredient list of everything I put into a packed lunch for 3 children so there are bound to be nuts in something they end up having.

Nuts are very healthy and nutritious, so we basically need to swap nut based products for something less healthy. I am most upset about the Muesli bars and no cakes made with nuts. Ds1 is a major food-refuser. He has never managed school dinners and food at home is an issue too. He nearly always has a muesli bar in his lunch, which I suppose I will need to substitute with biscuits. And sometimes I would include cakes made with nuts just to up his nutrition at lunchtime a bit. He doesn't like any form of meat, fish or cheese in his sandwiches.

I do sympathise that there are (a very few) people who have a 'life threatening reaction to nut products' (quoted on the 'nut free policy' letter). However, I would assume they do carry an epi-pen as it is impossible to create a completely nut free environment in a large school of children who are eating nuts at least at home. So, in reality it is not life threatening unless there is a child who has an unknown severe nut allergy. I would even be compassionate if it was stated that a child (without mentioning names) had had a reaction several times in school, but I very much doubt a child has reacted at school, and there may not even be a child with a severe nut allergy, so this is just scare mongering really.

SO, I do need to feel more positive about this and the extra work it will cause me, the extra moaning from my child and the reduction in nutrition. Please tell me off gently! I've had a bad night with not much sleep though, so please bear with me.

Bans make people complacent BUT reducing risk by not bringing in things like peanut butter sandwiches have got to be a good thing imo.

' other parents expressing shock that nutella has nuts in it'

Yes. I've had that. Need to keep a straight face whilst explaining.

A school I worked at had lovely oak trees around the yard ...... Yep a parent campaigned to have them cut down because ...acorns. Sanity prevailed.

I manage a nursery and we have a general nut free policy. But then again, we also ban all food coming in and provide our own (having consulted children about likes and dislikes). Because of this, we don't include any nuts (obvs) but if we are made aware of either a parent or a child with a severe issue (anaphylactic level/epipen required) then we up our checks to make sure that packaging etc is checked to make sure food is safe for the child.

We would also have a care plan to make sure that there are no nuts or contaminations in the setting. The reason for this is that very severely allergic people can be affected by nuts in the room - for example a friend of mine has to be careful about social invitations as she can react to bowl of peanuts across the room. Having an epipen isn't an easy option - if the sufferer (young child particularly) doesn't know how to or indeed want to use it, valuable time can be wasted. If a staff member has to have training to use one (all our staff are trained but it might not be the case in a school) again valuable time could be wasted in administering it. More if someone has to fetch the epipen from somewhere else.

Also a king size pain for parents whose children are not allergic, I believe that if the school knows of children who have such an issue, then it is right to impose limits. Anecdotes of people not taking sufficient care because they are not aware of the consequences includes one place who knew the mother was hyper allergic to nuts (although the child wasn't) and fed the child nutella sandwiches for snack. The parent was horrified to discover nutella on the child's sleeve at pick up time which could have caused a severe reaction in the car on the way home.... said setting was instructed to take away the child's top and wash it themselves -- you can't be too careful with such things.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost He's fine, thankfully. Back to normal. They were both running around madly in the garden the other night, happy as Larry (who must be the happiest bloke on the planet), but it was really scary for a few hours. (And for all the children that witnessed it, too! The trauma of seeing your classmate in such a state shouldn't be minimised.)

There is a nut ban in my DC's primary school. I respect that and it's fine. There is however a child in DC's class who has several other allergies including at least 2 types of vegetables, and eggs. The school hasn't banned these foods and that child has to sit on their own at lunch time. Completely baffling to me! If you are prepared to ban one food you should be prepared to ban any foods necessary to keep the children in your school safe.

In response to the q about outgrowing not allergy. I have a friend (40s) who is allegic to nuts. His allergy worsens every time he is exposed. He takes an epi pen everywhere and often asks about nuts in restaurants etc. I was with him once when he had a reaction to nuts in something you wouldn't expect to contain nuts at a party. He put it in his mouth, knew imnediately it contained nuts, and spat it out FAST. He swallowed none.

His throat swelled fasy, he was sick & used his epi pen. We went with him to hospital, where an emergency medical team came to treat him immediately. Despite all this, his blood pressure dropped severely & he was very very ill. Not a night I will forget in a hurry.

Surely if you had that severe a reaction to nuts, though, you wouldn't put anything in your mouth you weren't 100% sure of? Assuming it hasn't because normally it doesn't seems a risky strategy.

If you are prepared to ban one food you should be prepared to ban any foods necessary to keep the children in your school safe.

How far do you go? Would you ban nuts, eggs, milk products, fish, berries, mayonnaise (mustard), seeds? All these are relatively common allergies.

I have some sympathy for the "reducing risk" argument, but I know from bitter experience that the safer you think the environment is, the less likely you are to be appropriately vigilant, and the more likely that you will miss the early signs of a reaction.

I think I would probably support a peanut butter ban - it's easy for the stuff to get smeared around, exacerbating the risk, and it's a simple rule to impose that is easy for other families to follow and doesn't depend on people label-checking. But blanket bans are unnecessary and invite non-compliance.

Yabu it isn't always about consumption, some children are so allergic they can't come into contact with nuts or even in the same room. It is a pita but you only need to look once, how would you feel if your child caused another to die? How do you think the parent feels sending their child to school each day knowing there are parents like you who prioritise their child missing nuts for one meal a day during term time over the life of their child?!

I had friends at school with life-threatening allergies OP and am the same age. Also had a grandparent with a few...they are not new, but perhaps more common now that fewer people die of anaphylaxis than used to so are able to go on and procreate and carry on the genes.

Just to give you a brief insight:

• if you think your child is a fussy eater, imagine a child with life-threatening allergies. That is not fussy, it's health imposed and damn hard to check all ingredients, all the time indoors, when out, every kid's party, all the time for every snack and meal. It includes appts with dieticians to make sure the child with a restricted diet can grow healthily. So, you may have more in common with the allergy child's parents than you think (assuming it is a child, not a teacher who is allergic)
• in Year R we had reading books come home with stuff on them - these had to be cleaned before DS touched them if it looked like could in any way be peanut butter
• DS has never been to a school bake sale or school fete as it's hard watching your child being the only one not stuffing themselves with cake. And there are kids with sticky fingers wandering around
• DS has come home with half eaten lunch as it fell onto the table and he knows he shouldn't eat it if it touched a surface he couldn't be sure of
• DS didn't drink anything one lunchtime as another child decided to put their cake on the top of his drinking bottle as part of some game and DS knew he then couldn't drink anything - wise kid at age 5, but not switched on enough to then explain to a teacher and ask for another safe drink
• For every parent who says 'oh, I took in cake, etc. for the class and it was fine' there is an allergy parent cursing and rushing around to have to find a safe equivalent with minimal notice for their child so they are not excluded, again
• Yr R constant panic every time heard that yet another child had spilled their snacktime milk near DS
• DS forgoing fruit snacks when only one offered is one he's allergic to
• Having to be segregated every time the school doing a food or cooking activity - (see above about last minute notice to find equivalents). He also has to deal with being 'different' almost every day
• Not being able to take advantage of the gov's policy of 'free school meals for all' as they are not for all
• I had about 3 hour long meetings with the school and pages of paperwork before DS started Yr R
• DS will not get a 100% certificate for attendance this year in assembly because the medical clinics he has to attend as a result of his allergies are only at certain times and I get no choice of appts. The school does not care.

There are so many other impacts including the concern every time he goes off site with school or does after school club with non-teachers.

What worries me most is whether you have talked about this in front of your kids? I hope they don't have the same opinion. Try to involve them and give them the opportunity to develop empathy and understanding for their peers. All kids suffering from something that makes them different, makes them stand out, makes them have to worry about their health every single day should be given the same respect and kindness.

You know the thing about walking in someone else's shoes before you judge?

It's hard to be on high alert ALL the time, mistakes are made and nuts are sneaked into food you wouldn't expect.

Ds ended up hospitalised at 2.5 after touching my hand and I'd had some nuts in my hand.

I'm sorry your child is a fussy eater, but that really is your problem. Stop pandering to it quite so much

Nice to see you are missing the empathy gene.

suburbanRhonda you can ask people beforehand about what the product has in it but sometimes they either don't know (even though if its commercial they should) or they just assume that you wouldn't normally find this type of product in this type of food. I always used to buy a filled cheese pasta from the supermarket. used to just pick it up without checking. they didn't change the label but changed the ingredients and it changed to have a cheese I have an allergy to. it was when cooking it and smelling it I thought it was odd so rechecked the packaging. its really easy to get caught out.

pourmeaglassofmilk well made point. why should it only be nuts that are banned in this case? as I said before sitting separate would be a much better idea imo.

Providing a child with a nut-free packed lunch requires parents to be literate in English. Even if the request is made by the school staff to parents in a language or way they can understand, compliance relies on their ability to read, and comprehend, food labelling.

It's hard to be on high alert ALL the time

But in the case of willconcern's friend, he wasn't on high alert. He was severely allergic to nuts to the point where he could become extremely ill and yet he put something in his mouth that he assumed was ok because it didn't normally contain nuts.

I would have thought no assumptions was the best strategy with such a severe allergy.

I would have thought no assumptions was the best strategy with such a severe allergy

It is but as I said it's hard being on high alert and checking every single thing, every single time .

Honestly, seems pretty standard to me. I freely give my kids nuts and products with nuts at home but for school I do check ingredients. My kids don't have allergies (thankfully) but I know some who do and they can be extremely severe. Life threatening infact and frankly I don't want that on my conscious to make a pissy point about my kids packed lunches....

I don't understand why it's such a big deal OP. There's plenty of alternatives out there.

Years ago it was thought children ' choked' on nuts so you didn't give them nuts until after 3 years of age. It was actually children having anaphylactic shocks and struggling to breathe NOT choking, so people have always been allergic.

They way food is manufactured plays a big part in exposure to nuts too, years ago people cooked everything from scratch and you were only exposed to nuts at Christmas usually. So, people were allergic but not necessarily having reactions as they weren't exposed to nuts.

This is woefully misinformed.

Anaphylactic shock and choking don't look or feel the same. Most nut reactions don't end in anaphylactic shock, even in severe allergy sufferers.

And food has got safer, not more dangerous. Peanut risk used to be everywhere - I used to regularly get reactions from cross contamination. Not anymore: restaurants are more aware of the risk, labelling has vastly improved, and factory practices have become safer.

being on high alert becomes a way of life . you still have to have that life though - going out to clubs and bars where you might pick up the wrong drink, eating a takeaway etc. people become remarkably resilient and inventive when they have to. when I was in my clubbing days, I used to bring straws.

Dds boyfriend (17) has a life threatening nut allergy. It's very difficult as you have to check and recheck all ingredients to everything.

The last attack he had was after a very nice restaurant ensured us there were no nuts in any of the ingredients of his meal but obviously there was as his lips tingled at the first taste. Sometimes he has a warning sign but other times not.

Very very frightening.

So op just think yourself and your kids lucky and abide by the school rules.

Misti - I must tell Guys allergy clinic that

it's hard being on high alert and checking every single thing, every single time

I can't believe anyone with an allergy so severe that they could die wouldn't be checking every single thing, regardless of how hard it is.

Or if that really is impossibly hard, when in doubt, don't eat it, surely?

My son has minor food allergies, he doesn't carry an epipen but always has to have Piriton on hand.

Now when he has a reaction, it's just not nice for him, he looks and feels very unwell, until the drugs kick in.

I imagine if a child has an allergy so severe they need an epipen, maybe it is easier to ban nuts rather than the poor child having to become ill every time you want to give your child some granola. Bear in mind that even after using the epipen they have to seek emergency medical attention. That's not only costly to the NHS but disrupting to the school.