To think this 'nut free policy' is OTT for a school

[MerryMarigold]

So, letter home about next term's 'nut free' policy and I think it's a bit extreme but tell me what you think. In packed lunches (I will have 3 having packed lunch next year), we are not allowed to include:

• Fruit and cereal bars which contain nuts
• Sesame seed rolls
• Nutella
• Peanut butter
• Cakes made with nuts
• Muesli bars
• Baklava/ Nougat/ Turkish Delight
• Any packets of nuts

I would assume we are not allowed to give them pistachios in a Tupperware box either.

Anyway, my point is that how can they police it this closely? I know some kids cannot come into ANY contact with nuts, but for example, my kids would have nuts in granola at breakfast and probably not always wash their hands before school (if they remembered to clean their teeth when they first get up). I also refuse to check the ingredient list of everything I put into a packed lunch for 3 children so there are bound to be nuts in something they end up having.

Nuts are very healthy and nutritious, so we basically need to swap nut based products for something less healthy. I am most upset about the Muesli bars and no cakes made with nuts. Ds1 is a major food-refuser. He has never managed school dinners and food at home is an issue too. He nearly always has a muesli bar in his lunch, which I suppose I will need to substitute with biscuits. And sometimes I would include cakes made with nuts just to up his nutrition at lunchtime a bit. He doesn't like any form of meat, fish or cheese in his sandwiches.

I do sympathise that there are (a very few) people who have a 'life threatening reaction to nut products' (quoted on the 'nut free policy' letter). However, I would assume they do carry an epi-pen as it is impossible to create a completely nut free environment in a large school of children who are eating nuts at least at home. So, in reality it is not life threatening unless there is a child who has an unknown severe nut allergy. I would even be compassionate if it was stated that a child (without mentioning names) had had a reaction several times in school, but I very much doubt a child has reacted at school, and there may not even be a child with a severe nut allergy, so this is just scare mongering really.

SO, I do need to feel more positive about this and the extra work it will cause me, the extra moaning from my child and the reduction in nutrition. Please tell me off gently! I've had a bad night with not much sleep though, so please bear with me.

minifingerz the secondary school my elder three go to have a nut ban. I know they find it more difficult to police in the packed lunch room, but the cafeteria is completely nut free.

Homeschooling???? That's right; exclude the child , not the food. If u could hear the cries of a child who has not been invited to a party (again), or can't attend the school party without his mum (again) or very simply; who can't have an Ice cream at the park like all the other kids. I spend my life trying to protect my son without sheltering him from the world or excluding him from traditional childhood joys. Yes; a nut ban will not reduce the risk entirely but it WILL reduce the risk.

Yes; a nut ban will not reduce the risk entirely but it WILL reduce the risk.

This is basically what I was getting at but in a less concise way.

"Do any secondary schools ban all but products?" no. It would be impossible to police. Secondary isn't like primary where supervisors go round checking what the kids are having for lunch. And besides which if children are deemed old enough to make their own way to/from school then they're old enough to learn to manage their allergies.

No-one is saying FWIW that it isn't horrific for children who have life-threatening allergies. but the truth is that it's very easy to support a ban on nuts because it's easy enough to keep them out of lunchboxes or even the cupboards if necessary. I can't think of particular nut products in my cupboards ATM - well I have some walnuts for baking and nuts for my parrot but other than that....

But nuts aren't the only allergy which can be life-threatening. Eggs and dairy are up there with nuts, and yet no-one calls for those to be banned. And if a school introduced a no egg policy or a no dairy policy the responses on this thread would be vastly different.

Having just done the mandatory annual allergy and anaphylaxis training that all teachers here in Victoria have to do, they too are against "nut bans" because of the degree of complacency such bans engender.

Basically, those school that imagine they have nut free canteens are kidding themselves.

Must throw in that peanuts are not nuts.....but do agree that peanut butter is a common lunch one (w/o a ban) and is prob a dangerous one due to its general stickiness.

I agree that kids need to be taught how to handle their allergies - not yet met a child who hasn't been and can't see how that would be the case as they couldn't have missed the fact whlie growing up. Many deaths in teens is more to do with new experiences (kissing, etc.) and peer pressure. It's like saying that primary age kids are fine at home using a tablet under parental supervision then blaming a teen for losing a mobile phone while out as they've not been taught to look after stuff.

Parents advise kids how to drink responsibly I'd think, but how many of us have got drunk as teens or adults?

I don't 4 or 5 yrs is old enough for a kid to have to deal with their allergies when they already have a lot to deal with in school. Doesn't hurt for the school to help out with reducing risk so everybody can chill a little.

So what about a four or five year old egg or dairy allergic child then?

If the professionals advise against these bans, why do you think that is?

A friend with a child with lots of allergies said the best way the school dealt with it was that child and 2 set friends would eat in a seperate room. That room could be cleaned better easier, and the two friends parents knew child and agreed to be extra thorough with their child's lunches to make them safe.

That way she said it was easier as only had to rely on one room and those three lunches to be safe mainly ( 4 as assistant ate lunch with the them also). Rather than a whole school

I would assume they do carry an epi-pen as it is impossible to create a completely nut free environment in a large school of children who are eating nuts at least at home. So, in reality it is not life threatening unless there is a child who has an unknown severe nut allergy.
What do you think Epi-pens actually do? We had a sad story over here a week or two ago where a teenager had a severe reaction to squid while cooking at school, Epi-pens made no difference and he died after having to be put into a coma.

My girls are having a joint birthday party next month, and amongst their friends, we have one with a severe nut allergy (so absolutely no nuts, but she's ok with seeds), a couple with milk allergies (they're ok to be in the same room as dairy products, but won't be eating any), one with a gluten allergy, and a couple of vegans. So, for food, I'm doing a simple buffet of veggie sticks, breadsticks, hummus, mini sausages, cheese cubes, crisps, fruit and biscuits, and will have separate party bags for those who need them with treat-food they can eat; everyone else will have a cupcake in theirs.

I've spoken to the parents of the children with allergies (and the vegans), and without exception, they are overwhelmed that I'm taking their dietary needs into account, whereas I'm shocked that not everybody does!?! It's really not hard for me to adapt food for a 2hour party, so I'm not responsible for causing ill-health (or death) of a child.

We home educate (as do our friends) so don't have to worry about bans at school (though there are bans on nuts and a few fruits at my girls' dance school), but it really is not hard to be considerate!

How do children with nut allergies that servere to ban any but products in a school cope as adults? Using public transport, being out in public spaces, restaurants etc?

Doesn't hurt for the school to help out with reducing risk so everybody can chill a little.

Not sure if you've rtft but what if the organisations that carry out research into this area say that bans are ineffective? Would you expect schools to impose them anyway?

Chatter- it's a constant worry but what's the alternative, never go outside your front door?

No and that's why I asked I guess

• Why does banning it in a school they are at up to aged 11 equip them for secondary school and adult life?

An adult can make a reasoned assessment of the risks.

A four year old, not so much.

mishmash1979 - I didn't say all kids with allergies needed to be home schooled. I said it was an option that some people took because of the multiplicity or severity of the allergies. whilst you are doing everything you can now when your child is young no doubt you are also teaching him how to care for himself. because pretty soon he is going to have to and that is made more scary if he hasn't had to make his own choices now.

the clear points being made on this thread are:

Not all anaphylactic allergies are to nuts
banning nuts in school can engender complacency
allergy uk does not recommend a ban on nuts in schools.

I too wonder how this thread would have gone had it been that there were nut, dairy and other food allergies in the school and they wanted to ban them all.

you cant have one special policy in relation to nut allergies in school and nothing for other anaphylactic allergies. how is that fair and inclusive education?

OP you are being stupid and selfish. You would think completely differently if you had a child with an allergy. The risk apart from swapping food (which the allergic child can be told not to do) is from contamination from hands, door handles and cutlery. I had a severe reaction recently and the only think I can trace it to was that a knife used to cut a cake with no nuts which I ate had been used to cut the cake with nuts. It is that bad. It is very scary as an adult to have an allergy that you know will get worse with more exposure and that you could die from. It must be a thousand times worst to be the parent of a child with an allergy.
Regarding your comment about the nuts at breakfast, well you have to take some risks as you do when driving a car, crossing the road, but you minimise these and this includes restricting exposure to nuts wherever possible. The parent will be well aware they can't see what is happening both school but they can ask the school for support whilst at school.

Our (primary) school is nut free, due to several kids having severe nut allergies. It really isn't a big deal.

What annoys me is when people assume that these rules have been brought in out of a sense of overkill, and then decide that the rules don't really apply to them (it does happen, regularly).

I worked with a woman who was severely allergic to citrus fruits - even if someone peeled an orange in the same room. All oranges and related fruits were therefore banned in our building, which people thought was just a big joke. You'd get people just peeling fruit under their desk stealthily, and making jokes about her just being hysterical and making it all up. Then they'd be all surprised when she was taken out in an ambulance a few minutes later! Poor woman had to give up work in the end and live on benefits, as people just weren't prepared to wait until they got home to eat their bloody orange.

Your DC aren't going to develop malnutrition if they can't eat nuts during one meal a day. The rule is there for a reason.

banning nuts in school can engender complacency No, it reduces the risk for the affected children. If the staff are complacent then they are shit staff.

four, what's your opinion on the view of Allergy UK and the Anaphylaxis Campsign that nut bans in school are ineffective (links upthread)?

It's sad isn't it Roomba that people can't restrict something for a few hours of their day to be kind and considerate to someone else. All for the sake of a few nuts in a cake, peanut butter in a sandwich rather than ham or cheese or a piece of bloody fruit.

Best for a nut allergic child to assume EVERYONE else's food is full of nuts. NOT that they have correctly observed the rules and that they are therefore 'safe'.

If you have a severe allergy then someone opening nuts next to you can start the reaction.

A small child might not be aware of all nut products, if someone offers you a samosa are you going to think about the type of oil it is cooked in?

As for adults and older children, well an adult can get off a bus, move away or say something. The same with a secondary school child, most schools have some sort of medical pass system where a child can show a teacher the card and leave - not so easy with a 5 year old.

Do you not have a view about the conflicting advice then, four?

Op, if I were you I would use the holidays to encourage DS to vary his diet just so he is prepared for the next term. I'm sure you encourage him anyway but maybe it's the time you need to try a relaxed, oh let's try this etc, cooking together and what not

It could well be ineffective. But do you know why that is....because people can't be arsed to follow the policy for the sake of someone else's child. That's why they are ineffective. It has obviously got to go hand in hand with education for that child and others. You can't just ban something without explaining it. That would be something considerate parents would explain to their own children when a letter came home explaining it. Education for adults and children in causes, the severity of the reactions and in caring about people other than yourself would be more effective than a ban I would imagine but than that would be asking for a miracle.