AIBU that mumsnet should intervene in a child protection post?

[bellybuttonfairy]

I've read a couple of worrying threads on here recently. One was when a husband forcefully pushed a child and another very recently where a husband sprayed hairspray into a stepson face as in anger/punishment.

The post really upset me and when I checked the thread has been removed. Imy hoping that mumsnet were able to involve support agencies or do cases like this get lost in the ether of Internet anonominity?

Waitrose it's really poor form to pull info from a poster from one thread to another.

I don't really care, in this instance.

What a dickish thing to say

I can understand the intention but logistically I would expect it is a non starter. Aside from sorting the trolls from the genuine cases, who do you report it to exactly? This is an international forum remember so a poster could be pretty much in any legal jurisdiction in the world. Yes, MN may have access to the IP address but that is of highly dubious value. People can, and trolls often do, use various methods to mask their IP by the use of VPNs, proxies etc. Even if the IP address MN has is legit, before they could do anything, the LE would need to formally request the ISP to trace the identity of the poster and this would probably require a court order. A lot of work just to find out the source was a deliberate troll, an attention seeking fantasist or some untraceable customer using free wifi in a coffee shop.

I would also suggest that if MN did start taking an active and direct interest in reporting posts about abuse to the authorities, the site would attract trolls like flies to poo once the word got out. Also, the vast majority of genuine victims know they have the option of going to the police or SS. They come to the likes of MN because, rightly or wrongly, they are not ready to take that step and/or are looking for additional anonymous support. If they knew MN would escalate to the authorities, some/many genuine cases would choose not to post. So you drive away legitimate cases and encourage trolls - good job!

HerOtherHalf spot on. This is what I've been trying to say on my posts on here, you've summed it up!

A few years ago (maybe more than ten?) one of the exam boards asked a question on an English paper, which was something along the lines of, 'Describe a scary childhood experience'. They got LOADS of child abuse disclosures.

Yep, this. I work at a university teaching English & creative writing. It is common to ask first-years to do a personal reflective piece when they first come. Lots and LOTS of them are about their parents' melodramatic divorce, rape, assault, eating disorders. Many are true. Some are not. Because it's a creative writing exercise.

So is MN. People come on here to write wittily, to get attention, to sound things out. People are not 100% honest.

To the poster going about how 'outdated' we all are re CP advice - sorry, didn't clock your name - imagine I totally invent a thread about hitting my 1yo? Then SS turn up at my door and she has a headbump bruise, because, you know, she's 1. Do I deserve a full-on SS investigation and being 'known to SS' because I made up some tasteless shit on a website somewhere because I was bored?

For the record, I've never done either (hit DD or make things up here). But I don't think something someone tries out on a website somewhere is anything LIKE the type of evidence base you should have to involve SS in a family. That's not 'outdated', it's just someone disagreeing with you!

I posted on here about feeling suicidal when I had a newborn and it somehow got back to my health visitor but I have no idea if that was mumsnet or if it was a poster/ lurker who worked out who I was. I really don't think I put much info out there whereas mumsnet had my real name and the area in which I live so could have emailed the health visitors I guess.

I was grateful either way.

splendide I hope you are feeling much better now.

I cannot imagine for one minute MN would be passing your suicidal thoughts onto a health visitor. Surely if this was the case, MN would be like Big Brother watching us. Doesn't this forum have to be the safe place we can vent, ask for advice, talk out loud etc without fear of repurcussion.

I agree with rousette-I honestly can't imagine Mnhq would have done this. It's far more likely to have been someone you actually know.

Really glad things have improved.

I am much recovered thank you, DS now 20 months and I am really happy, dark days hopefully behind me!

Yes I was surprised. The HV told me that she knew I'd posted on mumsnet that I was suicidal though, I'm not guessing where she got it from. And she was completely sure, not a "have you" but a "you did". I'm honestly not sure what the mechanism for discovering me was.

Good to hear you're much recovered, I'm sure you're enjoying your little lad, I love that age

I would imagine a friend spotted you on MN to be honest. I just don't think it's something MNHQ would do.

I hope you don't mind splendide but I've reported your post asking Mnhq to clarify whether they would act in this way.

I absolutely wouldn't want my personal data used like this, even if it appeared to be for my benefit.

Im not suggesting that posters should be traced and interviewed - that is impossible. I think I am maybe naive to think that there are only a few trolls - I did believe that the most posts were genuine- or at least changed stories so that the theme is the same for advice but removes the clues for identification.

I will explain my thoughts of what I feel should be in place as I dont belive posts could be ignored.

In my ideal world mumsnet should work with outside agencies (Ie domestic violence, mental health, child protection etc) to develop good information and advice on next stage of support that could be sought - that could be sent to posters whose threads pull flags for vulnerability.

If someone is genuinely scared and worried, posters do usually (although poor comments do happen) give good advice but advice from specialised agencies (even though it's a standard response) is a good thing?

Also, there should be a log within mumsnet of these type of cases that can be easily accessible. In cases that seem genuine and are very worrying - especially with a repeated theme in different posts. Do mumsnet send them an email to say that their posts have highlighted concerns - we have discussed it with NSPCC/woman's aid etc and they have suggested x,y,z..

? Mumsnet must have a child protection policy - even if it's just to send out an email to suguest that the poster should contact support

What's the difference between MNHQ sending an email and hundreds of posters telling the Op to seek outside support ?

I think you are being deliberately obtuse .

This topic is covered in MN Talk guidelines. This is a copy and paste :

"A note about disclosures of abuse

We urge all our members to point anyone disclosing abuse to the appropriate authorities and/or seek professional support and advice in real life. We have a directory of suitable organisations here. We may also, where appropriate, post on the relevant discussion thread and link to these resources ourselves.

As we set out in our Privacy policy, we do not, as a rule, pass on any of the information you have registered with us, unless you specifically consent to us doing so or we are specifically required to by law. However, on rare occasions where there appears to be a clear need to safeguard the welfare of a Mumsnetter and/or his/her family, it may be necessary to contact relevant authorities about a clearly identifiable member and his/her posts on Mumsnet.

Last updated: 8 months ago"

I have a real problem with MN acting as an agent of surveillance. As others have said, Netmums and other forums already do exactly what the OP describes, and thereby deter a lot of vulnerable and frightened women from asking for help.

I too am intrigued as to what the fall out mentioned above was!

splendide I'm glad you are have recovered.

doinmummy erm, because most posters can empathise and support but mostly aren't experts.

I've seen a few posts that involve the support I provide in my profession - and some advice can be misleading.

I am usually impressed by the wealth of knowledge on mumsnet though.

There are probably more posters that are qualified to give out advice because they either work in that field or have been through a similar experience .

I know netmums does it sometimes or at least they claim to but it needs to be a real serious/imminent danger situation. Otherwise they just suggest who/where to ask for help.

@TrippyMcTrapFace

This topic is covered in MN Talk guidelines. This is a copy and paste :

"A note about disclosures of abuse

We urge all our members to point anyone disclosing abuse to the appropriate authorities and/or seek professional support and advice in real life. We have a directory of suitable organisations here. We may also, where appropriate, post on the relevant discussion thread and link to these resources ourselves.

As we set out in our Privacy policy, we do not, as a rule, pass on any of the information you have registered with us, unless you specifically consent to us doing so or we are specifically required to by law. However, on rare occasions where there appears to be a clear need to safeguard the welfare of a Mumsnetter and/or his/her family, it may be necessary to contact relevant authorities about a clearly identifiable member and his/her posts on Mumsnet.

Last updated: 8 months ago"

Thanks Trippy and all for your contributions.
We do not, as standard report things automatically unless there is a clear need to safeguard the welfare of a MNetter and/or his/her family. This is very rare but we will do it if absolutely necessary.

Most of the time folks are brilliant at offering support and advice and signposting people to RL help and we do either via email or on the thread if the thread is reported to us (otherwise we don't see it).

As others have said, we are never 100% sure that what is written is the truth and so we do err on the side of caution.

Mumsnet is an anonymous forum and we hold very little data, which would make it very hard to track folks down but the police are able to only in the most urgent of circumstance which, thankfully is very very rare on Mumsnet.

We hope that this helps.

splendide I'm so sorry you felt that way. I am glad you felt supported.

...........However I do agree with purpledaisies. Lots of people with MH issues would feel terrified and paranoid if they posted a rant on an 'anonymous' web forum and an NHS worker turned up on their doorstep quizzing them about it.

Also, what if you posted something on someone's behalf? Say, your friend who is not registered on MN but was reading replies over your shoulder and gaining comfort?
.........Then the next day your own HV turns up and starts saying you're suicidal. That would never be gone from your notes, they'd never believe if you denied it. It'd be flagged at future MW appointments, GP appts, for years..........

OP I strongly believe that it is possible for people to have MH issues and not be at risk of harming themselves or their children. People with MH issues are not necessarily incapable of making decisions about their own healthcare. 'Supporting' them when don't want/ need that type of intervention is a real violation of civil liberties, imo.

RebeccaMN thank you.

For me, yes it does. I have posted on MN about my own suspected PND. I chose not to seek support for it because it did not stop me being a great mum to DD, and because I personally felt that discussing it with my HV/ GP would be more damaging for me. I recovered from that dark period on my own, with support from DH and family, and I would have been plunged into a much worse place if anyone had come knocking on my door. I'd never have posted on MN again and thus cut out a vital source of support for me as a new parent.

I'm really glad you are so sensible