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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I being grabby and selfish (long story - inheritance related)

146 replies

RedHareWithBlondeHair · 18/07/2016 15:44

My mother has 2 children - me and my sister. My sister has 2 children and I have none.

For background - we are mixed - our father is English and mother Arabic. Me, my sister and mother and one of my nieces live in England, my other niece lives in our Arabic country.

My mother owns 7 pieces of land/houses all together (in her home country) - thus far, one piece is my sister's and another mine. The other 5 seem to be up for grabs. My mother has told me she'd like to make provisions in her will for both nieces wrt her estate. As I have no kids obviously there's nothing to be given to non-existent children.

My niece that is currently in the UK is severely disabled - she'll never lead an independent life and my other niece lives in our home country and is currently being supported by my mother wrt to school and upkeep etc - she's 21.

I should add that I have a massive family - my mum is 1 of 10 and I have countless cousins. My mother has paid a great deal of money towards their upkeep over the years - this meant paying for food, housing, bills, private education - the lot.

I've made it patently clear to my mother that I will not do the same. My niece often texts my mother asking for money and was surprised to learn that due to a sick spell my mother couldn't afford it. She is nearing retirement now and though she has a good nest egg for herself, she's now wondering what to do with the rest of her estate.

For one or two reasons I won't be having children in the near future. I can't afford them, I have no partner with whom I'd see a future with and I'm still changing careers.

My mother has a chronic condition which means she might not make it into her twilight years.

In her plans she'd obviously leave the 2 pieces of land that me and my sis already own to ourselves. But this leaves the question over the other 5 - which have appreciated quite a lot over the years. She wants to leave a provision for my niece over here who will need life long care when my sister can no longer manage it. She also wants to house 2 of my aunts and their children and also wants to leave my other niece something.

As it stands I'd only inherit my current bit of land. She's asking me to pay into the maintenance of the houses on the other pieces of land which I might not inherit - this isn't cheap and I'd feel resentful doing so. I'm now feeling like I want to walk away from the whole situation and let them all deal with it themselves when the time comes. Give up my bit of land and be done with. Perhaps only going back to home country for holidays if the feeling takes me. I've grown up here and don't feel the strong family ties with the others that she does. Despite being half Arab, when I'm there I'm still very much 'foreign'.

I love my mother and she's gone above and beyond in terms of paying for my education and lifestyle choices and also acting as a confidante. I suppose maybe I should take the view that I have a better way of living and more choices than the rest of that side of the family. When my father died over here, everything he owned went to his kids from his first marriage and his wife. My sister and I didn't get a look in and were lucky to be invited to the funeral.

I don't know what I'm asking, I suppose I'd rather just drop the whole thing. My mother's side of the family is full of so much drama - I don't even speak fluent Arabic (my sister does) and feel I'd end up getting screwed either way.

OP posts:
islalily · 18/07/2016 22:17

I can't really provide any useful advice, but I am following this thread with absolute interest as I suspect DH will have to go through something very similar in a few years.

His family is Chinese and the dynamics seem to be quite similar really. SIL seems to be heading towards being the sibling "who has to be taken care of", while DH is the level-headed, reliable sibling with a solid career and marriage.

Oh well, I will keep reading this!

RandomMess · 18/07/2016 22:22

I think the "I need to sell up my piece of land that I bought with my money as I want to have DC and it is the only way I can afford" is a very good tactic to take with your Mum. I think she needs to hear that you need YOUR investment back.

TBH the rest I would just forget about tbh

lottiegarbanzo · 19/07/2016 08:22

Btw, you say your mum has a chronic condition but not that she is terminally ill. Could she live for another 15 or 20 years? In which case she'll have the opportunity to meet any children you have and they'll have a grandmother. That's better than money, isn't it?

I do agree with pp that your mother sees assets in terms of investment for the long term, a landed estate, to provide an income to support the wider family. Not as liquid money to be spent. She does have people in mind to spend some of it on but I imagine she'd be delighted if some of the estate was maintained longer term.

Bit like the British landed gentry. They don't carve up their estate each generation for the sake of fairness. A deliberately unfair system of inheritance maintains the estate, as a potential source of income long term.

lottiegarbanzo · 19/07/2016 10:40

Not the same model of course. It sounds more like she's running a sort of family 'friendly society'. Those who can pay in do, those who need support are paid. She runs the investments - very successfully by the sound of it. Not a bad model, especially if you're used to family, not the state, having to fund everything.

But, it's all on her terms isn't it. There's no agreement amongst contributors - really needs to be amongst all users, to manage expectation and allow for changed circumstances. She decides who pays and who benefits.

The 'needing funds from your land to be able to start a family' line is therefore a good one.

That may create a different sort of tension, with imminent expectations of babies though. You'd have to explain your life plan, the real costs of living here and how much difference greater security could make. As a beneficiary of the maternal scheme (your initial investment offers profit only because of her good management) I imagine you'd be beholden in many ways.

Fedupofallthemud · 19/07/2016 11:14

As above I agree ask your mum for the land you paid for now to enable you to have a family. This would sort one problem and if you did then have a child this would bring you such happiness that I suspect the bitterness you are (understandably) feeling now would fade considerably.

user1468488303 · 19/07/2016 11:24

What I'm reading from this is you really begrudge your mother, who you say has been nothing but good to you, providing for her severely disabled grandchild to the point of cutting off your mother entirely. And mainly because you resent your sister so much.
Don't take out your loathing of your sister on your mother and your neice. Yes, you are being grabby and selfish. Bitching about our inheritance when your mother is still alive can't be anything but that.

mumtoboys · 19/07/2016 11:43

I am related to a solicitor who specialises in wills. This sounds like a complex situation. She should get legal advice because the disabled niece is likely to lose benefits if the money is left directly so it will potentially be a waste of money.

One way of doing it is to put the money in a discretionary trust which her other daughter could oversee, but it is expensive to set up and administer.

A solicitor would be able to advise. Also the laws for leaving foreign property are complicated so she would need to be careful with her will or it may not do what she wants.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 19/07/2016 13:49

It's not about being grabby

the mother is effectively saying (with money, and also with her expectation for the OP to manage the sisters/nieces maintenance) that "you don't have needs "
"your sister has needs, your nieces have needs, everything is geared up to those needs. You don't have needs"

This translates from money to emotions, it does!

RedHareWithBlondeHair · 19/07/2016 14:17

lottiegarbanzo You are most probably right when you say: "Those who can pay in do, those who need support are paid. She runs the investments - very successfully by the sound of it."

She does run it very well and is a very astute woman. I respect her so much for that.

This thread came about as we've had a few arguments as of late - I told her my opinion of my sister and the rest of my family and she told me that I should not be concerned about what my sister or family gets up to, she said my sister and my nieces and extended family are not my responsibility so I really shouldn't concern myself what they do or what she does.

Can I add that when my mother was paying for the rest of my family they sort of took a back seat as they knew that my mother would never see them go without and thus just lived off of her. I don't share this line of thinking. In my mind you either have - therefore can afford - or you don't - therefore go without.

I suppose I'm being a hypocrite as I do believe that as she is my mother then I should inherit (half) her estate regardless - who else would? The state? The rest of her family? She has 6 sisters and 3 brothers who all have children so am I to say that she can give it all to them?? They've never even wished me a Happy Birthday let alone supported me. So I don't know how I square those positions in my mind but I do.

If she does leave it all to my sister I can see the whole thing going to shit. My sister couldn't manage to spend any length of time there are she'd only get respite for 2 weeks max - she also is not business minded. Despite her fluency in Arabic she couldn't negotiate a camel out of the desert.

I happen to be my UK niece's godmother too - my sister has told me that in the event of her demise she wants me to look after her disabled daughter. This will literally mean a change in my whole life - I'd have to quit my job. Odd as it sounds my sister and I are actually quite close. I think a lot of my anger comes from pretending that I'm happy for her as she's overcome so much whereas I'm actually astonished that she'll inherit so much having never done a days work in her adult life. She caused our small family so much angst in the thick of her problems.

I have never veered off course - I suppose because I'm too paranoid to let myself do so and in our culture it's pushed on you that you must be a success, you must conquer the world. IMO my mother has done exactly this.

user Yes, I agree that talking about inheritance whilst my mother is still alive is distasteful but I'd rather clarify my position now whilst everyone is still standing. I can afford to pay into the estate but if I will get nothing from it then I'd rather keep my money. I'm not rolling in cash and if my mother wants me to be a contributor then I am willing to participate - but if she then goes on to leave the whole thing to her aunts and my sister then I will probably die out of bitterness if I've paid for it all.

OP posts:
littleprincesssara · 19/07/2016 15:00

OP, I am in no way judging you, but I would really recommend seeking some kind of therapy because there are evidently family issues deeper than the financial situation. Therapy could probably benefit most people.

And def try to get the land you paid for into your own name.

Bipp · 19/07/2016 15:07

What does your DH think about this? Do you think your mother thinks because you gave him that you don't need the money.

BTW I don't think it's wrong to ask about the money. I agree that it's better to know what the score is sooner rather not knowing.

islalily · 19/07/2016 16:53

OP I have a question for you: how would you feel about splitting the financial support of your disabled DN with your sister IF you and your sister equally inherited the entire estate?

Something tells me you would be happy to help support your DN.

What grates you is not the financial support your disabled DN will get, is the unfair division between your and your sister and the fact that your sister is getting a way better deal than you in spite of her "lack of effort" in life.

CattyMcCatface · 19/07/2016 18:25

redhare I agree with your view that it should be 50:50 between you and your sister. My mum did that with me and my siblings, 5of us, with differing numbers of children and none, then it is up to us to pass on or not. My mother-in-law is leaving her estate to my eldest son, her eldest grandchild, which I think is awful, none to my husband or his brother, and none to our other children. (Irish- leave it all to the oldest boy).

Jayfee · 19/07/2016 18:48

Red hare, family things go very deep in our feelings. You are in the uk and think more like i do, but feel conflicted possibly because you feel on some level that life hasn't quite given you what you want yet and that perhaps your mum could give you more to help balance things, if that makes sense. I would try not to think about it and avoid talking about it. Lots could hapoen before the estate is divided. Your mum has some idea how you feel.

NotWeavingButDarning · 19/07/2016 18:54

I totally understand where you're coming from here, OP, and I can see why you're angry, but trying to make someone else be fair to you will just drive you round the bend.

I agree with others that the best recourse would be to try to get your DM to sell your piece of land for you so that you can have the financial wherewithal to start your family, then leave them to it and don't engage re: this stuff any more. You will honestly be happier.

Remember, as far as you know your DM doesn't even have a will, so it may all be irrelevant. She is just wielding this hypothetical power like an axe over your head.

RedHareWithBlondeHair · 19/07/2016 18:55

Bipp I don't have a husband. I wish I did as then maybe there'd be someone who I felt loved me without conditions. But having spent my time lurking on the relationships board I'm wondering maybe I'm better off without one!

islalily if my sister and I were to inherit equal shares I would clearly make sure that my DN had support in place. That said, I would do so regardless as I don't ever want to see her go without. I know it'll sound ridiculous but if gifted so much my sister won't necessarily know what to do - she only managed to sober up as she had this little person to care for who'd otherwise be helpless in the world.

littleprincesssara I've been to counselling but it didn't help me to square the circle iyswim? I know I need to find coping strategies and ways to appreciate and respect what has happened but I can't quite get over my bitterness for the moment and I do feel like my mother knows what she's doing and it affects me. I don't know - perhaps I should try mindfulness or something but it's a case of rage boiling up at various times - I'm not always so angry! Just when the moment hits I get furious iyswim?

OP posts:
AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 19/07/2016 18:58

I don't think councelling will resolve anything until arrangements are firmed up

The mother on the one hand wants the OP to keep paying into the "family estate" and on the other hand is refusing to talk money with her and clarify/solidify her position.

That's going to keep breeding family problems no matter how much the OP works through those feelings - they're gonna keep re-occuring until the money is talked about

RedHareWithBlondeHair · 19/07/2016 19:14

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected

Your statement:

"your sister has needs, your nieces have needs, everything is geared up to those needs. You don't have needs"

Is correct. I don't have needs but there you go. All I can do is continue to be bitter solo.

OP posts:
IFinishedTheBiscuits · 19/07/2016 19:19

I don't think you're selfish or grabby, I think most people in the same situation would feel the same.
I'm the only one out of my siblings to have children but I feel absolutely that anything should be split between us three siblings only, it's down to me to pass this on to my children.

Notmuchtosay1 · 19/07/2016 20:01

Is your mums land subject to uk tax? I mean inheritance tax. If it worth 5 million do you realise how much of that will have to be paid back to the government in inheritance tax?
We went through a massive family row with my partner and his 2 sister that live abroad. We spent 10 years looking after his parents, anyone that has had parents in their 90's will know. When they died they left more to my partner, their son than the daughters. He was left their house, them the cash. But it's not worth masses more than the cash. But they spent a year fighting the will. We will never speak to them again after all the accusations, we were accused of stealing from them, poisoning them and plenty more.
I think it is sad they have fallen out. So please try not to fall out. But I agree your mum should see a solicitor, sort it all out with a will. You definitely shouldn't be paying into something that you will not inherit.

prettylegsgr8bigknockers · 19/07/2016 20:02

I am so very sorry for you, this is an awful situation and it goes very deep into your emotions. I have been in a similar position. I wish I had clear unequivocal advice for you but in the long run you have to come to terms with your mothers decision. Just don't let her manipulate you and remove yourself as much as you are able. Be strong and Good luck

Benedikte2 · 19/07/2016 20:08

Red Hare. If your mother leaves a substantial sum for your DN's care to your sister your sister will lose any benefits she is receiving. A trust would need to be set up to protect the rights of both parties.
You should tell your mum you rely solely on your wages for survival and if your became sick, unemployable etc you would be destitute. Any children you may have would also be destitute. Even if you marry you cannot rely on your children's father to provide for them -- witness your own father's behaviour. Tell her you are worried about your future security.
Good luck. I hope things work out for you.

FinnegansCake · 19/07/2016 20:21

Adulting - of course the OP has needs. She needs recognition that she counts as much in her mother's eyes as her sister, nieces and extended family. She needs to feel that her future is taken care of too. Why should she be passed over because she has worked and studied hard? Who is to say that she will always be in a position to be self-sufficient? None of us is protected from illness, accident etc.

OP - do you have your mother's nationality as well as British? In some countries foreigners don't have the right to own property/land. It would be wise to find out where you stand on that matter. In Arabic countries inheritance is governed by Islamic law, but some allow a certain amount of the estate to be willed. You should try to find out the legal position of that in your mother's country if you can. Inheritance can be extremely complicated in large families like your own, I've heard of disputes lasting down the generations so that ultimately the land benefits no one!

I feel for you, I think you are being treated very unfairly. In your position I would certainly not contribute to the maintenance of any of these properties/land, and you are quite right in feeling that you will be seen as a cash cow. Your mother should sell the land she bought on your behalf and give you the money (currency restrictions permitting, of course) or at the very least write it in your name. If she doesn't, you risk being screwed over by the rest of the family, particularly her brothers and sisters who could claim everything, depending on whether the legislation in their country recognises a marriage with a foreigner (ie your father). The whole situation sounds complicated and ffull of potential pitfalls.

FinnegansCake · 19/07/2016 20:24

I forgot to add that you are absolutely not being unreasonable or grabby. In your position I would feel extremely hurt and resentful.

Marysunshine · 19/07/2016 20:36

I'd have a frank talk with your mum and tell her this is making you unhappy. Advise that you see a lawyer that knows the real value of the assets and the responsibilities that go with the current arrangement.

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