Am I being grabby and selfish (long story - inheritance related)

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

My mother has 2 children - me and my sister. My sister has 2 children and I have none.

For background - we are mixed - our father is English and mother Arabic. Me, my sister and mother and one of my nieces live in England, my other niece lives in our Arabic country.

My mother owns 7 pieces of land/houses all together (in her home country) - thus far, one piece is my sister's and another mine. The other 5 seem to be up for grabs. My mother has told me she'd like to make provisions in her will for both nieces wrt her estate. As I have no kids obviously there's nothing to be given to non-existent children.

My niece that is currently in the UK is severely disabled - she'll never lead an independent life and my other niece lives in our home country and is currently being supported by my mother wrt to school and upkeep etc - she's 21.

I should add that I have a massive family - my mum is 1 of 10 and I have countless cousins. My mother has paid a great deal of money towards their upkeep over the years - this meant paying for food, housing, bills, private education - the lot.

I've made it patently clear to my mother that I will not do the same. My niece often texts my mother asking for money and was surprised to learn that due to a sick spell my mother couldn't afford it. She is nearing retirement now and though she has a good nest egg for herself, she's now wondering what to do with the rest of her estate.

For one or two reasons I won't be having children in the near future. I can't afford them, I have no partner with whom I'd see a future with and I'm still changing careers.

My mother has a chronic condition which means she might not make it into her twilight years.

In her plans she'd obviously leave the 2 pieces of land that me and my sis already own to ourselves. But this leaves the question over the other 5 - which have appreciated quite a lot over the years. She wants to leave a provision for my niece over here who will need life long care when my sister can no longer manage it. She also wants to house 2 of my aunts and their children and also wants to leave my other niece something.

As it stands I'd only inherit my current bit of land. She's asking me to pay into the maintenance of the houses on the other pieces of land which I might not inherit - this isn't cheap and I'd feel resentful doing so. I'm now feeling like I want to walk away from the whole situation and let them all deal with it themselves when the time comes. Give up my bit of land and be done with. Perhaps only going back to home country for holidays if the feeling takes me. I've grown up here and don't feel the strong family ties with the others that she does. Despite being half Arab, when I'm there I'm still very much 'foreign'.

I love my mother and she's gone above and beyond in terms of paying for my education and lifestyle choices and also acting as a confidante. I suppose maybe I should take the view that I have a better way of living and more choices than the rest of that side of the family. When my father died over here, everything he owned went to his kids from his first marriage and his wife. My sister and I didn't get a look in and were lucky to be invited to the funeral.

I don't know what I'm asking, I suppose I'd rather just drop the whole thing. My mother's side of the family is full of so much drama - I don't even speak fluent Arabic (my sister does) and feel I'd end up getting screwed either way.

[SirVixofVixHall]

I do agree with pps, in that a full and frank discussion about this with your mother is needed. Emphasising that legally this is a minefield and could leave you feeling very upset and angry, and have a negative effect on your relationship with your sister and her children. When parents try to divide their estate on the basis of who is most needy at the time of the will being made, it NEVER ends well. The only way to ensure the minimum of bad feeling is to treat each child absolutely equally, so talk to your mother about this, as it is never just about the financial settlements, it is always about who feels more or less loved as a result of them. Even if one of my daughters ended up very wealthy and the other totally broke, I would still leave everything to be split 50/50, and trust that the more affluent child would help the other if she could. My brother is better off than me, and I have two dcs while he has one, but I would have felt very uncomfortable getting more than him. My parents had always treated us very fairly, and that really helps when you are left sorting out everything when you lose them. We've done it all with no quarrels or unhappiness, down to small possessions etc, partly because our parents were so fair. Your mother needs to take on board how much pain it can cause in the wake of a mother's death if things are not dealt with fairly, she has probably never thought of the emotional impact on you.

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

Puzzled, It would never have occurred to me to buy any property or land there. I just didn't think that way. My dm told me it'd be a great investment and I followed suit - said so upthread. I couldn't have negotiated a single thing over there thus wouldn't have bothered to begin with.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

At the time which is now many years ago I gave her the money from my savings and topped it up with a loan I'd taken out

So if - as it seems from having taken out a loan - you were old enough to hold property in your own right, why was it put in your mother's name instead?

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

happybee1 No it wasn't. At the time which is now many years ago I gave her the money from my savings and topped it up with a loan I'd taken out. And yes, I'd hate to loose my family over this but I also can't get on board with my mother's way of thinking 100% of the time. We had very different upbringings and have different ideas about life.

Anmi0802 yes I very much do see that I am behaving like a child especially so as from this thread I've seen that all of us are walking with blinds over our eyes. Much to my shame, all the conversations I've had with my mother about it didn't include the legal aspect of things. Perhaps if I'd approached it from that angle then she'd see me less as a grabby child. Tbh, I haven't the faintest clue about the legal workings of inheritance in my home country and only possess a very basic rudimentary grasp of the UK inheritance system. In that respect, I suppose I have been selfish and grabby.

38cody I really can't do that - reasons are two-fold. I'm prepared to be flamed for saying so but the reason I'm reluctant to do so is if in the event that she agrees and we sell it, I wouldn't get the market rate and she'd then most definitely consider me sorted wrt to the rest of her estate. I'd rather forgo a few thousands than waste the opportunity for more. And also perhaps more understandable - my input isn't considered as 'mine' it is the family estate. As was pointed out upthread, it really is a case of those that can pay into the estate do so and those that cannot don't.

[38cody]

Can't you tell your mother that you want to sell your land now and then wash your hands of it - hopefully she will do the right thing and leave the rest 50/50 between you and your sister.
I have 4 children, my brother has none - my mother will leave her estate 50/50 between me and my brother with a small amount of cash for my children, but nothing large enough to cause resentment.
At the end of the day though it's her money, her will. However, It seems as though the land you paid for is now being considered as an inheritance from her which she at least needs reminding of.

[Jaxhog]

I agree with CauliflowerBalti. I'm in the same situation (executor to my mom's will, where assets split equally between children and grandchildren. I have no children).

The most important thing is to say no to the maintenance. Be polite, but adamant. Then, if you can, persuade your Mom to get financial advice to both secure her own future and make a will. It took us 2 years to finalise my FiL's stuff when he died without a will, and his affairs were fairly simple. Trust me, you don't want that hassle.

[usernamealreadytaken]

Not an easy dilemma to comment on! I understand your frustration, and the PPs advising legal advice are spot on - I'm not sure that you/your mum can take any further action without proper legal advice.

We don't know the laws of the Arabian country where the land/properties are; there may be domestic laws covering what can be done with them (ownership by non-residents), there may be various death duties or inheritance taxes to take care of (in which case is there enough liquidity to take care of them without liquidating some of the land?), and perhaps other caveats which we can't guess at.

Good luck, it sounds like at heart you obviously love dearly everyone involved, so it would be a shame to have a big falling out and lose the love and closeness of your family xx

[Anmi0802]

I'm sorry to ask, but you are saying you don't your side just because you are upset for not getting more? I'm sorry for saying this but you are behaving like a child, if your mum wants to leave her lands to other people she loves is her choice and her money she worked for. Also 20% is not too bad after she paid your education and done things you want over the years. Accept what she is giving you or if you are very upset talk to her nicely and explain what is bothering you? She might turn over and agree with you and give you more? She sound like a wonderful mum and I would love if my mum paid for my education and she seems very generous :)

[happybee1]

Was the plot you own bought for your as a child out of inherited money? If not it was not a good decision as if the estate is that large, depending on the laws of the country inheritance tax will be due on it. In the UK this would be 40% over a certain amount. You really need to sort that situation out as I believe that if its gifted back it needs to be 7 years before the person died to be devoid of inheritance tax.
You have talked about walking away from the whole thing but if the estate is that large, would you walk away from something worth over 1M that you had actually paid for??
I don't blame your mum for thinking you are grabby but I can see your pov as my DP died before I had DC's but my siblings had, they weren't taken into consideration.
You do sound really bitter and my family was split over inheritance and still don't speak today so pls bear this in mind.
Anything could happen and your mum could need care herself in later life which could mean there isn't much left to inherit. Good luck with it all.

[Ic3lollyr3d]

In some cases wills are kept totally secret and not discussed at all when the person is alive

People hear about the will on the day of the reading of the will

Inthat case, Perhaps you should inform your mother that the only discussion she should be having is with a solicitor or financial adviser in relation to her will

[Ic3lollyr3d]

1
You have paid for land, but it is not in your name
So I guess legally you have no right to this land

2
Due to (1) I would contribute NOTHING to any future land maintenance

3
Your mother can leave her assets to whom she wishes

4
I would suggest to your mother that she seeks legal advice and gets her will written asap (none of us knows what the future holds)

5
I would concentrate on building and maintaining your own life by yourself
I would not rely on inheriting anything
In the future if you do inherit something, it will be a bonus !

6
I think people people fighting about money is a little distasteful

[lottiegarbanzo]

I do sympathise in many ways, as above and this is a really nuanced situation, there is no single 'right answer'.

But... I do think (your investment aside) you have to recognise that your mother's assets are hers, to do with as she wishes. You talk, especially in para 5 of your post at 14:17 almost as if they are rightfully half yours - as if their distribution must be justifiable by you, to you. Almost as if you are the person making the will.

In some countries there are strong cultural, even legal expectations that immediate family, especially children, will inherit. In contrast, the UK has a strong cultural tradition of individualism, even eccentricity in will-making. People can and do leave millions to their pet cat, to charity, to carers, to people they like, even celebrities they've never met, rather than to their children or grandchildren.

Your expectation of inheriting half your mother's estate (hope would be fine but not expectation, especially your sense of having a right to it) seems to me distinctly un-British. Of course your mother isn't British and is clearly bound by other traditions. But you are and, that rather silly point aside, I really do think you have to let go of the idea that you own your mother's assets.

She's still very much alive. Who knows she may yet blow the lot on gambling, endow an art gallery, set up a charitable foundation, give a huge chunk to charity (could make sense tax-wise), have her head turned by a toy boy... Whatever. It's hers to spend (except the bits other people have invested).

Your resentment of your sister is a separate, albeit connected, issue. This really is the parable of the prodigal son daughter.

The difficult children always get the extra incentives. It is so much better and more satisfying not to need them. But yes, nice to be appreciated.

Good luck.

[KirstyLaura]

If the niece is in the UK (which I believe you said she is), then those health care needs will be taken care of if she doesn't have the money herself.

I don't think you're being unreasonable. Unfortunately it does sound like your mother is already decided. I also think it's wrong that she effectively stole your money. I'd be pissed off at that, particularly with her holding even keeping that over your head.

[SirVixofVixHall]

Hmm. If your mother died intestate, then everything would be split between you and your sister 50/50. I think this is the only fair way tbh. My father's estate was divided in this way between myself and my brother, and so was my mother's (who died intestate so legally this was the division anyway). I have two daughters, my brother has one child, so as a family we would have benefited more if the estates had also included a lump- sum for each grandchild, but I felt it was appropriate and fair to divide anything equally between Db and myself, and then we can give whatever we like to our dcs. We are not talking about very large sums though, my mother's care home fees ate into a lot of her capital. Personally , I would want anything of mine to be split equally between my daughters. Leaving something personal for any Grandchildren, if i have any.

[Marysunshine]

Then I'd bail out of the situation altogether. It's important to live your life as you want to - if your mum is relishing any part of how this is making you feel it's not healthy and you may regret investing your time and emotional energy into the matter.

[FinnegansCake]

Sorry Adulting, I had not read your post, I just jumped on the bit from OP's where she quoted you

[Bipp]

Ok then, I understand. I change details myself. I only mentioned it as i thought, had it been a real DH, that it might have been relevant to the problems with your DM.

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

I've just AS'd myself - if you mean the thread that a someone posted about them being female and hormonal and I replied saying that my dh would forgive me for being a woman then I was being facetious. Other than that can't see anything else.

[RedHareWithBlondeHair]

FinnegansCake I have both nationalities/passports.

bipp I do refer to a theoretical 'dp' on threads in for example the one about being a SAHM but to my knowledge have never said I am married - I have even posted about theoretical children wrt to my dating thread. If I have explicitly said I am married please do post a link to the thread in question. I understand changing a few things here or there but like you said losing a DH would be rather unfortunate. What comment are you referring to?

Marysunshine I'm loathe to talk to my mother anymore about it as I get the feeling she'd love how much it's tearing me up inside. The more I talk about it to her, the more she thinks I'm being grabby and basically digging a grave iyswim?

[AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected]

FinnegansCake did you even read my whole post?

[Bipp]

OP. I asked about your DH because you were posting about him a few days ago. .

I get changing a few details to protect your anonymity but loosing a DH is quite unfortunate

[Marysunshine]

I'd have a frank talk with your mum and tell her this is making you unhappy. Advise that you see a lawyer that knows the real value of the assets and the responsibilities that go with the current arrangement.

[FinnegansCake]

I forgot to add that you are absolutely not being unreasonable or grabby. In your position I would feel extremely hurt and resentful.

[FinnegansCake]

Adulting - of course the OP has needs. She needs recognition that she counts as much in her mother's eyes as her sister, nieces and extended family. She needs to feel that her future is taken care of too. Why should she be passed over because she has worked and studied hard? Who is to say that she will always be in a position to be self-sufficient? None of us is protected from illness, accident etc.

OP - do you have your mother's nationality as well as British? In some countries foreigners don't have the right to own property/land. It would be wise to find out where you stand on that matter. In Arabic countries inheritance is governed by Islamic law, but some allow a certain amount of the estate to be willed. You should try to find out the legal position of that in your mother's country if you can. Inheritance can be extremely complicated in large families like your own, I've heard of disputes lasting down the generations so that ultimately the land benefits no one!

I feel for you, I think you are being treated very unfairly. In your position I would certainly not contribute to the maintenance of any of these properties/land, and you are quite right in feeling that you will be seen as a cash cow. Your mother should sell the land she bought on your behalf and give you the money (currency restrictions permitting, of course) or at the very least write it in your name. If she doesn't, you risk being screwed over by the rest of the family, particularly her brothers and sisters who could claim everything, depending on whether the legislation in their country recognises a marriage with a foreigner (ie your father). The whole situation sounds complicated and ffull of potential pitfalls.

[Benedikte2]

Red Hare. If your mother leaves a substantial sum for your DN's care to your sister your sister will lose any benefits she is receiving. A trust would need to be set up to protect the rights of both parties.
You should tell your mum you rely solely on your wages for survival and if your became sick, unemployable etc you would be destitute. Any children you may have would also be destitute. Even if you marry you cannot rely on your children's father to provide for them -- witness your own father's behaviour. Tell her you are worried about your future security.
Good luck. I hope things work out for you.