To think boys should be able to do Brownies?

[PrinceCharming7]

I'm a bit confused why they don't? Girls are allowed to do Scouts/Cubs/Beavers, so why can't boys do brownies?

Griphook yeah, cos when I mentioned the raping and murdering I was totally talking about 8 year old boys, wasn't I?

Male privilege. It exists.

Peoples attitude to boys and young men on this forum thoroughly disgusts me.

What threat does an 8 year old make, Please explain??

I was bullied by 7 year olds in primary school. They also bullied (sexually harrassed, you would say if they were older) one girl in class because of her breasts at about the age of 8.

Boys are not harmless to little girls, only to adult women.

Besides, one of the issues I see with boys in those spaces is that they'll be fawned over by the adults, and hog all the attention. People don't even notice their own sexism half of the time.

It is good for girls to have a space where they aren't second priority all the damn time.

It's not as though there aren't options for a quieter boy to spend time with girls.
that's not much help if the girls they're friends with are busy with Rainbows/brownies

Or think about why the girls have deliberately chosen the all girls alternative, rather than trying to wangle a way in themselves
In my DDs school it's because it's easier to arrange pick-up/drop-up shares to Brownies than other activities, because lots of them do it and its near.
They're not all excaping nasty boys, not one of them has said anything of the sort, they say how "handy" it is though being at a convenient time and place.
Parents favour convenience and practicality a lot of the time, especially if they have siblings to also get from A to B

It's been explained again and again that boys CAN have their own boys only spaces. The adults need to volunteer and set them up. Perhaps that would be more productive than all the 'what about the boys' whining.

But history seems to show that overwhelmingly it is girls who like Guides/Scouts/Brownies/Clubs and overwhelmingly it is women who volunteer to run the groups. Perhaps that tells you something.

And I don't understand why the OP's boy can't join the scouts.

I think other people have already said this, but it's worth saying again, Brownies isn't that sedate and all about crafts. Our Guides group definitely isn't! The girls are extremely boisterous, quite loud, and there's a lot of activities that cater for this, from biking in local parks, climbing at a local climbing wall. There has been the odd pamper party as well, and cooking is a favourite activity, but campfires are really popular too. It isn't crafts and glitter every week with nice quiet girls, at least not in our local group, and that's partly why my children love it.

LilacSpunkMonkey

Boys don't need a safe space from girls.

No but they do need a space where it can be boys only.

*Griphook yeah, cos when I mentioned the raping and murdering I was totally talking about 8 year old boys, wasn't I?

Male privilege. It exist*

You used the term boy, not men in the context of a thread about children and clubs.

Never suggested male privilege doesn't exist, but your comment was wrong and disgustingly out of place.

For the record, I have two sons as well as a daughter. I don't have an attitude towards boys and young men. I work in a school and the boys there are, for the most part, bloody lovely but the majority of the worst violence comes from the boys, the sexual language (on the rare occasion it happens) comes from the boys, the talking back to the adults comes mostly from the boys and towards the female staff.

I have two younger brothers and a Dad that I love dearly.

What I don't like is 'well, why have girls got this thing of their own? That's not fair, despite boys having much, much more. How can I swing things even further in favour of the boys?'.

Locally we have Beavers (mixed) and Brownies. I will send dD to Brownies when she turns 7 (she has wanted to go since she was about 2!) rather than Beavers because it is girls only. Her school is small and the genders are really unbalanced, this year she was in a class of 6 girls and 13 boys, next year it will be 4 girls and 7 boys and the reception class for a 3rd year running is majority boys. She needs a bit of girl space and opportunity to make girl friends, especially now that they are at an age where actually the boys don't really want to play with the girls very much.

In my DDs school it's because it's easier to arrange pick-up/drop-up shares to Brownies than other activities, because lots of them do it and its near.

It's not about the parents' convenience, it's about providing something solely for girls.

No-has suggested the girls are "escaping nasty boys" nor that boys are nasty.

I'm with you, OP. I see no reason whatsoever to segregate children by sex. Separate groups often serve to reinforce tired old stereotypes, which should be challenged rather than supported.

Have I said boys can't, shouldn't or don't have their own spaces? Nope. They're more than welcome to them. I wouldn't object. But I don't agree they should be pushing their way into girl-only spaces.

It feels like the only people who boys to be able to join Guiding are those that aren't actually involved in Guiding. They don't appear to understand the values of Guiding, and they don't see the way the girls act fdifferently when they are alongside Scouting members at events.

We take out Guides to camp every year, and it's fun, they muck around, chat, light fires, cook, wear hoodies and wellies and just have fun. One year we were camping next door to Scouts and everything was different. They "couldn't" light fires, they went to ask the boys for help, they weren't interested in the evening activities they wanted to chat to the boys, they were doing that silly "girly" giggle when they were around, didn't take a lead in the day activities because of the boys and generally got less out of the camp.

My ds had only female friends and was quite happy at beavers and cubs with his female friends

Peoples attitude to boys and young men on this forum thoroughly disgusts me.

Mumsnet hate boys and mild I n equal Measure. Starts at birth with the whole gender disappointment

Oh, and the Brownie leader at my school is quitting at the end of this term, after 8 years of unpaid volunteering because of people using her group as cheap childcare because it's 'convenient' for them.

Have I said boys can't, shouldn't or don't have their own spaces? Nope. nope just rapist and murderers

Mumsnet hate boys and mild I n equal Measure. Starts at birth with the whole gender disappointment

Who is "Mumsnet"? Do you mean MNHQ?

What gender disappointment do you mean?

Griphook give over with your 'gender disappointment'. I've got sons. I love them every bit as much as my daughter and they make me proud every single day. No general disappointment here.

It's been explained again and again that boys CAN have their own boys only spaces. The adults need to volunteer and set them up. Perhaps that would be more productive than all the 'what about the boys' whining

Because that's not what people mean when they say "what about the boys"
If brownies is such a "safe" nurturing space, then why don't boys need that too. Together. It's not about wanting a brownies equivalent that's boys only.

If boys were allowed it'ld still be girl dominated, there'ld just be a few boys too

If we want to raise a generation of boys who see girls as equal then shoe horning the boys into boys only boy spaces is not any sort of answer

My boys are wonderful, funny, clever, fantastic children...very nearly perfect

Scouting and Guiding originated 100+ years ago from the same ideas but have since the outset always been separate organisations.

In the early 90's Scouting were suffering from a decline in numbers so opted to open up their units to girls if they so wished to join, Venture Scouts had been co-ed before this but I can't recall the exact date.

One of the reasons stated for needing to go co-ed was at that point in time the majority of Young Peoples football and rugby clubs were aimed at boys and not mixed which caused the decline in numbers. There were not as many options for clubs for girls. Their popularity has soared again across the country since about 2007 and their centenary as they seem to have got a very good PR machine working.

Girlguiding belongs to a wider world organisation which at its very heart is the offering of a Girl Only Space.

The benefits of a Girl only space is that girls have been proven to be more adventurous, more open with opinions, willing to try new things without the opposite gender around. I have witnessed this taking a group of girls to a climbing wall - all gave it a go, no one became silly and scared, and all made it to the top. A month or two later same group of girls at a mixed gender camp barely got halfway up the wall as all the above appeared!

As others have said in some areas girls would not be allowed to attend if it was mixed.

I am another leader who does offer craft but not every week, and we also do just as many adventurous activites as our local scouts, but it is very dependent on the leadership team - we all have our areas we enjoy. I personally love craft and make a concerted effort to make sure I don't default to it. I do know units where it is not so well implemented.

I am a bit of a Scouting and Guiding geek coming from a very involved (since 1929) background!

If brownies is such a "safe" nurturing space, then why don't boys need that too. Together. It's not about wanting a brownies equivalent that's boys only

Isn't scouts mixed? There you go. Problem solved

But what about the boys that get shy and withdrawn in environments with boys only? Where do they get to go?