To think boys should be able to do Brownies?

[PrinceCharming7]

I'm a bit confused why they don't? Girls are allowed to do Scouts/Cubs/Beavers, so why can't boys do brownies?

So to recap the pertinent points:

1. OP isn't asking for a boys only space, but a mixed version of Brownies.

1. A mixed version exists. It is called Cubs.

1. Some people find it unfair the girls have a girl only space in the form of Brownies. This annoyance doesn't seem to spread to the many other girl only clubs (with the exception of netball, on behalf of the OP)

1. Some people want a boys only space.

1. Some people want mixed spaces.

1. It is not clear why points 3 and 4 are the responsibility of Girlguiding, or why Brownies should become mixed because of this.

1. Many other groups exist.

Also, to the PP mentioning the threats of protest around BB - can I ask why it was felt that you needed to agree? Was there not confidence in defending the position of boys only? (Not being snarky - genuine question)

True echt

I admire the perseverance of many on here

But i have the attention span of a gnat

I'm sure it's true that numbers must have been falling nationally for the decision to be taken, however in my experience where I've lived, there have always been long waiting lists for places, those lists are longer now.

Yanbu my dd goes to scouts, loves it so why shouldn't a boy go to brownies or guides.

noodle

You keep trying....

I wouldnt mind but the OP hasnt said that her boy wants to join brownies

Just that she thinks it will suit him better

Due to her apparently (according to brownie leaders on here) sexist and outdated views of what a club made up only of girls does for entertainment

And she also hasn't tried Cubs by the sounds of it, and changed from its because DS will enjoy crafts more to the fact he is shy

I have a fairly quiet boy (well not at home, obviously), he goes to art club with his group of female friends after school. He also enjoys beavers, which happens to be just boys, and it has encouraged him to play football more, get involved in loud games and he has fun. I don't think that it has to be boy only, but I do think that it helps him to relate to other boys, if he had a free choice he might have chosen rainbows but he learns new skills and is challenged at Beavers.

My dd both enjoy the girl space at brownies and guides. One of them had a bad experience with a group of boys (in lower juniors) who were lying in wait for her, catching and kissing her despite her telling them not to over some months, the school did little to intervene and it has had a lasting impact (obviously we acted when we became aware). She still doesn't want to be in the same social space as boys much, she is for some clubs but mainly self-selects more girl dominated activities, although she is quite outdoorsy and not at all princessy. Brownies is also quite outdoorsy and she feels safe in that environment.

Ok you might say 'my son isn't like that/ wouldn't do that, he would only want to come for the craft and gentle activities', but firstly some of the boys involved weren't the big, bold footie players, they might also prefer a more girl dominated environment, but where would dd go then? Secondly it isn't just what the boy might want - there are other factors, what if beavers clashed with karate, so his parents thought he could go to rainbows instead? Maybe it would be easier for me to send ds to rainbows because they are all on the same night so I wouldn't have to have two nights of scouting/ guiding. There could be many reasons why a parent might choose guiding over scouts, not just because it suits their dc more. You can't screen 8yr old boys to determine whether they are likely to be wanting to kiss the girls or not.

I wouldn't mind either way if scouting was just for boys or mixed but dd needs that safe space. She would leave if some of the group of boys joined Brownies.

Another reason for a girls only space is for religious reasons. Some religions don't allow their female members to have their heads uncovered around males, so this would put them at a disadvantage.

WankersHacksandTheives both groups have long waiting lists in a lot of areas. As has always been the case. However Scouting in the late 80s/early 90s was declinin nationally.

I agree I think they should have stayed boys only, but I can't see the decision being reversed anytime soon.

Some groups do have boys only sections alongside a mixed group. As far as I am aware this is allowed but my contact with Scouting is a bit out of date.

On the waiting lists - remember many may be long because the number of groups locally has declined, so although it looks popular on the surface, there's actually a decline overall.

Rufus I don't know why I bother either
I'm clearly an evil man hater for pointing out that a 100 year old organisation has the right to set its own membership policy.

How very dare you, Ritchy

5. It is not clear why points 3 and 4 are the responsibility of Girlguiding, or why Brownies should become mixed because of this.

I suspect it's a similar reason as to why some MRAs get very angry at women who fundraise for women's domestic violence shelters or breast cancer.

They could fundraise themselves for prostate cancer/shelters for men who are victims of DV, but it's a lot easier to blame women and demand access to what women/girls have, than to go to the effort yourself.

Outdamnwind my stats are a bit old but nationally both groups have risen in numbers from 450,000 to 500-550,000 over the past decade. So overall both are still growing slowly. At a local level this might be different. We have just opened another Brownie and Rainbow unit.

I totally get why girls need a space.

However, I think boys do too.

Most children on this country go to mixed sex schools so get plenty of time to mix. They get far less opportunities to spend time alone.

I think boys need a chance to tear around without being nagged/told on. A lot of little girls are very dominant and a socially sophisticated.
Mixed sex groups change the dynamic, I think boys also need a chance to be with their friends without impressing the girls/being treated as annoying.

Older boys/scouts might benefit from male only topics too eg men's health/emotions depression/using condoms/the need to be macho or not!/staying safe-males are also vulnerable/positive male role models etc

It does seem 'unfair' that boys don't get this opportunity and girls do...especially as the organisations may be separate but are equivalent.
Minot sure the answer is to let boys into brownies though.... Maybe rainbows and beavers should be mixed and separate from Cubs and Brownies....

Related to that, I think one of the interesting themes of this thread is how much people expect to outsource responsibility of their child's development and leisure time to formal organisations and volunteers.

why can't girls and boys have places where they only have the only sex there?
if girls can become scouts and cubs, then boys should be able to join brownie/guides

OutDamnedWind
Also, to the PP mentioning the threats of protest around BB - can I ask why it was felt that you needed to agree? Was there not confidence in defending the position of boys only?

We didn't agree, pressure was brought upon us by wider area (battalion and District) and head office (regional). Locally the church that we (they still) are affiliated to didn't want the bad press, linking through school and other activities that they were linked to.

any bad press would have and did prevent us from finding another base of operations as we have to be linked to a church or wider christian organisation.

even though the decision is supposed to be made at local level, we were left with no backing, local or national.

ritchy

Its not as if i have a problem with all male childrens social clubs

But nope, manhater

But why should Rainbows and Beavers be joined? They're completely separate organisations. You might as well say swimming and ballet should join for the littlest, then split.

Noodle Both orgs are happily on the way back up, but both have hit rough patches (scary that a decade is only 2006!) Certainly the limiting factor for both (in almost all cases) is getting adult volunteers.

I would like to point out at this point that I believe that there is enough room for girls only, boys only and mixed spaces.

Boney That is certainly crap, and it's a real shame that the wider org/church weren't prepared to stand by a decision they supposedly supported.

Well said finova

Well said finova.