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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Jeremy Corbyn & the rest of the Labour Party should read this.

95 replies

MangoMoon · 14/07/2016 09:00

On the vague off chance that Jezza & chums (and the rest of the Labour Party, in fact) are MN readers, perhaps this article could give them a nudge in the right direction:

http://howtobeacompletebastard.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/how-labour-can-stop-being-shit.html?m=1

S'ok Jezza, you can thank me later WinkGrin

OP posts:
cingolimama · 15/07/2016 16:08

OP, thanks for the blog link. Terrific and scathing article, punchily written.

Please, oh please can we retire this idea of Corbyn as principled? Utter shit in my book, cozying up to the very worst regimes, terrorists and Anti-Semitic crazies.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/07/2016 19:51

Corbyn is genuinely principled - you only have to look at the choices he makes as a politician in contrast to others for that to be obvious. How often has he shunned the limelight and refused to take pot shots at the Tories when doing so would have won him acclaim all round? The irony is, British politics is dead on its feet for want of leaders who will put their principles ahead of the self-serving popularity contest and when we get one, we don't like him because he doesn't try hard enough to make us like him.

He's a lot more principled than the element within the Labour party who voted for the Iraq war and are now 'suspending' branches of their own party which support Corbyn. Hmm

Whatever Corbyn's failings are, there is bloody nothing to suggest that his opponents could find their way out of a paper bag without arguing, lying and getting into a punch-up while still in it.

Corbyn was misunderstood in his use of the word friend - he uses the word 'friend' when talking to hecklers who clearly hate him - it is his way of finding common ground as a step to communication, in the interests of improving the situation for everyone. It comes from a desire to have a politics that overcomes difference and hostility by including everyone.

As for Israel, there's something wrong with the world if we can't say that what they're doing to Gaza is heinous. It's a pity they didn't make Germany give up land at the end of WW2 rather than picking a nation that had nothing to do with the atrocities that led to the new Israel. No other country gets to live and make (oppressive and selfish) decisions free from censure. When other nations suffer as a result of it, maybe they shouldn't get to either.

I haven't noticed anyone on this thread saying that Corbyn has the support of the country - he has a great deal of support within people who want to vote Labour. Other people within the Labour party cannot overlook that because it's inconvenient.

esornep · 15/07/2016 20:09

I haven't noticed anyone on this thread saying that Corbyn has the support of the country - he has a great deal of support within people who want to vote Labour.

But the polls don't entirely support the latter, do they? In the latest Mori poll, a majority of Labour voters want to see Corbyn step down before the next election. A fraction of Labour voters are obviously very supportive of Corbyn (and also voters from the left who would usually support other parties) but not a majority of Labour voters. And this is without taking into account the floating voters who would be essential to win the next election.

And given that I have seen intimidation (together with gender and racial discrimination) from Corbynites I personally cannot agree that the people around him seem to have "a desire to have a politics that overcomes difference and hostility by including everyone". I don't think he is condoning any of the bad behaviour, but he really isn't doing a good job at leading.

Where is the Opposition? Why didn't they condemn the removal of climate change yesterday? Why aren't they criticising the controversial bills going through parliament? The Labour front bench seem almost entirely silent on so many issues. (I find very hard to believe that Seumas Milne could not get their responses reported in at least the Guardian.)

cingolimama · 15/07/2016 20:14

Funny that, I mention Anti-Semitic crazies, and suddenly we're talking about Israel and Gaza. Yes, of course it's acceptable to criticise Israeli policy - many Israelis (let alone Jews) do that.

What I refered to is Corbyn's friendliness (as in inviting to tea, repeatedly sharing a platform with etc.) with Holocaust deniers, and with an Islamic cleric who believes (and preaches about) the blood libel (where Jews apparently use Christian children's blood to make matzo). In addition, Corbyn repeatedly appeared on and took money from Iranian state television. Do I have to tell you what is so wrong with that?

flippinada · 15/07/2016 20:22

Well I'm not sure the blog post isn't that great but he's right about Jeremy Corbyn.

I have no doubt he has sincerely held beliefs and principles but at the end of the day that doesn't matter because he isn't an effective leader and he isn't electable. Yes, I know that he has a lot of support from Labour Party members but they aren't the people he needs to convince.

It's an unfortunate truth that, under FPTP (which yes, is shit but that's the system we're stuck with for the time being) the Labour Party cannot win an election without turning blue votes into red ones - and that is not going to happen under Jeremy Corbyn.

I and many other Labour supporters would far rather have a Labour Party that was electable than one which is ideologically perfect.

That is before you get into the dodgy antics of Momentum and the horrible threats of violence against female Labour MPs who have criticised his leadership.

TaIkinPeace · 15/07/2016 20:23

Corbyn is very principled

but he's not willing to get his hands dirty holding the Tories to account

WHICH IS HIS JOB AS THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

He therefore should go, and go fast.

Labour MPs are doing a fantastic job on select committees trying to hold the government to account

but he and his bully boys smash their windows

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 15/07/2016 20:25

He wasn't misunderstood it just others would never use the word friends when addressing a group of people who want to see Israel destroyed and have done their best to do so

Principled did you not see his reaction when one of his mp's was attacked by someone from momentum or how he didn't suspend Ken Livingston until he was under pressure both women comments were made to are Jewish

And as for his links to the IRA and his support of terrorists that attacked the government was not about working towards peace it was about supporting terrorists that attacked the Tory government

There is nothing principled about Corbyn but his pr teams spin has been good

Because of his links to the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah he will never ever become PM the press will remind voters everyday running up to a general election of this and rightly so

Redactio · 15/07/2016 20:26

Slight drift off topic,
I am a member of UNITE, which seems determined to support Corbyn - to the detriment of it's members.

rubybleu · 15/07/2016 20:33

Now I've heard it all. Gonetosee, Jeremy Corbyn isn't liked because we don't try hard enough to like him? I've now heard every excuse possible as to why Jeremy is a crap leader and a crap politician.

To reiterate, I live in his electorate and it's really very hard to see the impact of his "principles".

MrHannahSnell · 15/07/2016 21:49

Corbyn's real job, let's not forget is Leader of the Opposition and he's crap at it. Hopefully, he'll win, Labour will split and we'll get someone leading an opposition that can really hold the Govt. to account (yes Alex Salmond, I'm looking at you).

lljkk · 16/07/2016 10:06

Maybe Corbyn thinks his "real job" is to give voice to the constituency who elected him leader. It doesn't matter if they are in power or if he leads the opposition or holds govt to account, as long as he is a figurehead for their perspective. Often unheard, he might argue.

Alex Salmond looked a bit tired in last night interview. In his finest form day, I'd be happy for him to take on such a role leading opposition, not sure he'd be keen now.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 16/07/2016 14:33

No, Ruby, that wasn't what I meant. I was trying to make the point that he wasn't liked because he doesn't 'try hard enough' to make us like him - i.e., focusing on coming top of popularity polls like an ego-driven popstar. We're under no obligation to try to like him of course. Do you get it now?

TaIkinPeace · 16/07/2016 16:16

Corbyn is a rich white bloke who has never done a day of real work in his life.
He owns a mortgage free house in Islington
He has never been at risk of redundancy or outsourcing

He is paid a £60,000 premium on top of his MP salary to be the Leader of the Opposition
and he's not doing it.

In industry he'd face the sack.

Statelychangers · 16/07/2016 16:40

I think JC needs to win and labour needs to split - that way we get a socialist workers style labour and a centre left labour to replace Lib Dems. Everyone will be happy.

esornep · 16/07/2016 16:42

I think JC needs to win and labour needs to split - that way we get a socialist workers style labour and a centre left labour to replace Lib Dems. Everyone will be happy.

Hmm, particularly the Conservatives, who will then be power for the next decade(s) due to the left vote being split.

Statelychangers · 16/07/2016 16:57

esornep No I don't think that will happen - I don't believe JC is anything more than an also ran, he can't lead, his support will only be with the hard left.
I think labour is deeply divided and a win for either Angela Eagle or Owen smith would not unite the party - they are a mess and none of the three candidates are very impressive. I'd rather get the thing over and done with - the extreme left will never form a Government but they need representation....and a centre left party can take the blue votes that the extreme left can't touch. They should get on with the divorce, the quicker the better - we need s proper opposition.

TaIkinPeace · 16/07/2016 17:00

THe maths is already in favour of Tory governments for ever - because Labour lost Scotland.
If Labour split then it will definitely be Tory government till they split.
Nice one Jezza.

esornep · 16/07/2016 17:11

The hard left already have representation (socialist worker party etc). In some of the marginals the (small numbers of) votes these parties get are comparable to the Tory majority over Labour.

If Labour formally splits into two and runs candidates against each other, formerly safe Labour seats are going to tip to Tory or Lib Dem.

Agree with TalkinPeace that Labour are already in real trouble because of the loss of Scotland and the forthcoming boundary changes. They cannot afford to lose even a fraction of their votes.

BTW there's also a big question of who would keep the assets if Labour split. Right now, if JC wins, the hard left would keep most of the assets, with the split off party having to set up their own infrastructure and financing. (Although of course a lot of big donors have already withdrawn since JC took over - I read recently that they are down by millions just through the withdrawal of Jewish donors alone.) However, they already seem to be setting up infrastructure in preparation with their "Saving Labour" campaign. Anyone know who's financing this?

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 16/07/2016 19:43

Maybe Corbyn thinks his "real job" is to give voice to the constituency who elected him leader. It doesn't matter if they are in power or if he leads the opposition or holds govt to account, as long as he is a figurehead for their perspective. Often unheard, he might argue.

I think that's where his talent lies but the man himself does have the drive to deliver more than that.

TaIkinPeace · 16/07/2016 19:50

but the man himself does have the drive to deliver more than that.
and your evidence is?

FFS he's never done anything with his life other than stir up shit in unions and London councils
he is rich enough to be able to pontificate without giving a shit if he's right

he's been in the top 20% of earners for so many years
he has no idea there has been a recession

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 16/07/2016 20:49

talkin

No offence, but what you're saying strikes me as tripe - or at least, insults that could be levelled against every other politician also. Most of them have not been as personally affected by the recession as the majority of the people they represent - not a great reason to start cherry-picking which ones should go for this reason.

So campaigning and speaking up on behalf of the voiceless is now officially stirring up shit. Well I'm glad someone does it. In some parts of the world they have different names for it.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 16/07/2016 20:51

And FWIW, a study has found that far from there being a media spin for him, there is a media spin against him; 75% of media reports failed to 'accurately report his views'. The media have no business to be reporting inaccurately and perhaps we should get the truth before judging.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 16/07/2016 20:52

I should add that the study was carried out by the London School of Economics, not the Labour party Grin

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 16/07/2016 21:04

His pe's spin is certainly working

The word principled is now synonymous with Jeremy Corbyn

And they have social media which is more powerful than ever. If he choose to do so little and refuse to engage in any debates during the referendum what could they report

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 16/07/2016 21:06

His pr spin ...

Not pe Blush