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To think Jeremy Corbyn & the rest of the Labour Party should read this.

95 replies

MangoMoon · 14/07/2016 09:00

On the vague off chance that Jezza & chums (and the rest of the Labour Party, in fact) are MN readers, perhaps this article could give them a nudge in the right direction:

http://howtobeacompletebastard.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/how-labour-can-stop-being-shit.html?m=1

S'ok Jezza, you can thank me later WinkGrin

OP posts:
TolpuddleFarterOATB · 14/07/2016 14:32

Great blog piece. I'm glad I'm not the only person totally cheesed off with Labour at the moment.

MangoMoon · 14/07/2016 14:40

I think Jezza is still operating under the delusion that he is still a backbencher activist rather than the leader of his party, and more importantly the leader of the opposition.

I'm afraid that although I obviously care about what 'Janet from Huddersfield' thinks, I'd much rather he was translating Janet's concerns into proper policies & using them to hold the govt to account, not just reading them out like he's in 'The Hub' on This Morning, vacuously reading out viewers tweets.

OP posts:
MangoMoon · 14/07/2016 15:01

Another good article (Brexit Klaxon, sorry!)

Explains further why Labour is shit, and why their unashamed shitness, married with the Cameron govt's ruthlessness has led us to this point.

21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/27/brexit-john-pilger-explains-why-the-british-said-no-to-europe/

OP posts:
JamieVardysParty · 14/07/2016 15:32

Great article.

Labour are really missing a trick by not combining the experience, doorstepping & network connections of the "old" party with the media-savvy, young Corbyn-supporting grassroots.

As it is, I just can't get on board with a stubborn man who is willing to see his party implode for the sake of his own "principles" - all while basking in his own echo-chamber, reflected glory in the parades in his honour.

HandsomeGroomGiveHerRoom · 14/07/2016 16:05

The party in opposition have a huge responsibility, which Labour have failed to fulfil for years and years.

I'm angrier with them than I am with the Government tbh.

Lucydogz · 14/07/2016 17:26

We have no effective opposition in the UK at the moment, and haven't for some time. As an ex-Labour member I feel very angry about this. My do still goes to constituency meetings here in Bristol, and they're shambolic, packed with Momentum members, who are determined to ride rough shod over other members.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 14/07/2016 18:47

Looking at the behaviour of Corbyn's enemies over the last while, I very much doubt their ability to run a jumble sale, let alone stage a successful coup and as for running the country...just no.

MangoMoon · 14/07/2016 19:35

So what are Jeremy's plans & policies for the country?
Perhaps he could make a start by leading?

When can the country expect a united & effective opposition?

Tomorrow? Next month? Next year?

OP posts:
OneMillionScovilles · 14/07/2016 19:47

Agree with OP's sentiment - we need an Opposition capable of, y'know, opposing.

However, couldn't get more than halfway through that abominably written, chippy tripe.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 14/07/2016 20:18

I think there's always been a contradiction in Labour TBH - its identity crisis started long before Corbyn. In a sense, Corbyn's the one without an identity crisis where Labour are concerned. Blair didn't know what he stood for either, except that it wasn't recognisably Labour and it largely seemed to involve playing the Tories at their own game before eventually joining them at their own game. During Cameron's reign, Labour has gone along with policies it should have fought to the death, were it the party it's supposed to be.

We live in a media age where Corbyn goes down like a lead balloon. The Labour supporting Guardian reading baby boomers are now more Tory than Labour - he's an unpleasant reminder of what they used to be. His refusal to play anyone's else's game certainly presents a problem in terms of a lack of showmanship, but doesn't - or shouldn't - affect his standing as a politician. I personally don't buy the selfish and vain narrative - his life hasn't been about lapping up attention and strokes the way Tony Blair's has been. Corbyn is bent on furthering the interests of the people he talks to everyday and his considerably more self-serving enemies within the party are white noise as he goes on his mission. If he was a hen, he'd be the sort that ran around the garden while its head was lying on the chopping board. His opponents seem like children scuppering a boat, saying 'We won't stop doing this until you get out...now get out and stop scuppering this boat'.

There is no coherency anywhere in politics at the moment, from anyone. Corbyn is at least methodical, principled, driven and the only one who really knows what Labour is about. Although far from perfect, his opponents are deliberately doing their best to sabotage his reign by setting up a situation in which he is isolated and divided, then blaming him entirely for it.

I'm not sure that we could expect any Labour to hang onto those who've defected to UKIP. The Tory cuts (on the back of a Blair government that saw the working classes shafted) have left some people so desperate that they are desperately vulnerable to the UKIP polemic. Anything measured, even coming from someone as credible and committed as Corbyn, just wouldn't have been loud enough.

I don't think we should throw Corbyn out. It would be better to acknowledge that this is a pendulum swing that the Labour party has had coming for quite some time. Corbyn needs to listen, he needs to talk - they need to work something out together. And some of the older Guardian readers probably need to vote Tory because their interests are more closely aligned with that party now.

JessicasElephant · 14/07/2016 20:59

I like Corbyn. For the first time in my adult life I'm glad to have an actual socialist leading the Labour Party. If some MPs don't like socialist values, then I'm not really sure why they would stand as MPs for Labour. I'm not really sure why the media have decided that Brexit was Corbyn's fault. Perhaps because he (shockingly?!) said that he wasn't 100% sure about the EU. I mean, heaven forbid a politician might actually admit to not being perfectly sure about something. It's almost as though he thought it through and made a decision on the balance of probabilities rather than having knee-jerk reaction. And we wouldn't want that in a prime minister.

MangoMoon · 14/07/2016 21:33

Agree that he's a man of principles & values; agree that he was not 'to blame' for Brexit; agree that he doesn't seem like a bad person.

I don't, however think he's a leader.
Leaders inspire confidence & followership, they can take even the most grudging along in pursuit of a shared belief or outcome.

His biggest problems are within his party members, yes, but he should (as a leader) have the ability to cut through all the shit & make a new path.

He is better as a campaigner & activist - not as the front-man.

If he is retained as leader, Labour is fucked.
If Angela Eagle or Owen Smith become leader, Labour is fucked.

I really do think a big split is imminent tbh - I just wish they'd get on and do something.

Like or loathe the Tories, they've shown over the last few days how to be in control of things (or at least appear to be).

OP posts:
lljkk · 14/07/2016 22:14

I'm not really sure why the media have decided that Brexit was Corbyn's fault.

BBC summary. Or the Huffington Post overview, which includes this gem:

The head of the LabourIn campaign, Alan Johnson, asked for a meeting with Corbyn in April and was told by his team that the only available date would be July.

There are other summaries online all the stuff Corbyn refused to do, like sharing a "Remain platform" with Cameron, even though Milliband argued hard to try to persuade Corbyn. Hence a lot of Labour supporters were actually confused about what the formal Labour position was on Brexit.

Corbyn is a complete toerag when it comes to cooperation, collaboration or teamwork. Which is why he turns out to be appalling at leading a party, too.

OTheHugeManatee · 14/07/2016 22:38

So what is it that Corbyn actually stands for? What policies would he implement? It might be the fault of the media conspiracy he says there is against him but I don't get much from him by way of policy except 'austerity bad, Trident bad, Israel bad but we don't talk about that'. I want to hear about good, meaty policies. What are they?

lljkk · 14/07/2016 22:58

tbf, JC hasn't been allowed to change Labour party policy.

Corbyn would like all these things.
Rent controls (I can actually agree, I think),
More spending on public services (coz money grows on trees-),
free university tuition (to people who are already privileged),
no more Trident (wouldn't it be great if only the bad guys have nukes),
Withdrawal from Nato (coz that will make us safer),
renationalise railways (heaven knows how to pay for that),

and other nebulous stuff like more gender equality (even though his supporters have been widely accused of misogeny)

...promoting arts, and National Citizen service.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 14/07/2016 23:07

The man of principle line that his pr have spun has certainly caught on yet there is a full on media conspiracy against him Hmm

What is so principled about Corbyn he lied to the public throughout the referendum he has never been a supporter of the EU

MysteriesOfTheOrganism · 14/07/2016 23:07

Very funny article. Zero chance of being acted on. Zero chance of much of it even being owned as accurate.

maninawomansworld01 · 15/07/2016 00:41

There are lots of left wing things you can do without driving the country to bankruptcy or being dicks to everyone who doesn't think like you.

My personal favorite line.
Sums up the left perfectly!

OutToGetYou · 15/07/2016 00:55

gonetoseeaman - that's sad. Because they were always very good at jumble sales in the past #sadface

OutToGetYou · 15/07/2016 00:59

As for the policies, they seem to be:

Renationalise the railways
Ban zero hours contracts.

That's it. Nothing on the economy, though we know they'll want higher taxes.

Yes, a split is inevitable and actually overdue.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/07/2016 14:12

Were they really out? Did they also cancel jumble sales that looked like they might be more successful than the one they were holding?

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 15/07/2016 14:14

enthusiasm What you don't seem to understand is, not everyone who would have chosen to get into the EU thinks the country's interests will be served by getting out, and getting out in this manner at this time.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 15/07/2016 14:45

He didn't just not support going in he was highly critical of how the EU operate as others are on the left of the party

If he was to keep his job as leader of the Labour Party he couldn't support leave

JamieVardysParty · 15/07/2016 15:16

Trying to find the great article I read the other day that summed up Corbyn's Labour for me.

It basically talked about how, under Corbyn, his supporters engage in gesture politics due to their identification with what he stands for, and how it makes people feel like they are part of a social movement, like they are changing something without actually having to do the messy, dirty work of actually building a social movement.

If they had developed a social movement then the overwhelming power and influence of Corbyn himself would automatically reduce and it would become about the party/movement not the man himself.

If I can dig out the article, I'll come back and post it. Bit more food for thought.

esornep · 15/07/2016 15:44

It would be better to acknowledge that this is a pendulum swing that the Labour party has had coming for quite some time. Corbyn needs to listen, he needs to talk - they need to work something out together. And some of the older Guardian readers probably need to vote Tory because their interests are more closely aligned with that party now.

Guardian readers don't feel their interests are aligned with the Tory party. There is a huge difference between centre Left politics and hard Right.

What truly astonishes me is that people really believe that Corbyn has the support of a large part of the country. No poll gives him anything near enough support to do well at the next election, outside of seats which are already Labour strongholds with solid majorities. Polls are not completely accurate, but he is way, way down from where he would need to be to form a government.

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